I'll give you a hint: it goes something like "I don't want to break up my family, either, but nor am I going to subject us any longer to my husband's bad behavior. If I'm going to let him back this time, it will only be with some healthy boundaries in place."
Starsky
This speaks volumes to me!! thank you so much! what would be classed as healthy boundaries though?? does this mean things like him being transparent at first, only going out together, things like that???? [/quote]
I would start with him writing OW a no-contact letter (with you approving the content, and you mailing/delivering it, so that nothing is added or subtracted), full transparency, MCing with a C that has specific experience in dealing with infidelity, and your husband taking a full-panel STD test, with you getting a copy of the results.
Well, I loved your ideas thank you so much! My H on the other hand wasn't quite so keen!
So, I said to him I've been thinking of a few things that would maybe help me feel that he is serious about how much he loves me and wants to work things out....his response to writing OW a no contact letter? he kind of snorted and said "be a bit difficult when I don't know how to contact her" (he doesn't know it but I know her email - I haven't used it but of course when/if he wrote such a letter we could email it but I thought it best not to divulge that I know it at this stage!)
He is happy to go to MC although doesn't see how talking to anyone can help.
the STD tests he raised his eye brows, tutted and snorted all at once!! - that was the only response I got - when I asked why he reacted like that he said "I haven't slept with anyone so why do I need tests?"
I also said I would like to change the password of his email account so that he can only access it with me present - he was not a happy bunny at all!! says I'm being sneaky and how can I call him for lying to me when I'm doing things like this!!!! (he already said I can look at it whenever I like but obviously this is open to abuse as he could delete contact from her as soon as it comes through before I look)
So....I don't know - I feel so lonely and empty and to be honest he doesn't seem to me like he can be bothered to fix this.
(((((IP))))) I can't believe this! He wants to make it work, but it seems only on terms HE feels are fair. Well - he'e the one with the mountina to climb .... honestly, I'm shocked.
But then I AM sitting here on a Friday night, alone, waiting for H to come home when he said he'd be home an hour ago but stopped off for a couple of pints.
Sigh .... I#m probably not the best advisor tonight. Right now, I advocate cutting off his ***** and having them made into earings.
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
It's YOUR life, and YOUR marriage. If these are the things you need in order to feel safe again in the marriage, considering what he's done, then stand your ground. If he's not willing to do it, then you'll have your answer.
Basically, what you're trying to convey is "Look, I'm not telling YOU, PERSONALLY what to do. I'm saying that these are the minimum things that I would need from ANY MAN, at this stage, in order to feel safe in the marriage again, and to rebuild trust. If that CAN'T BE YOU, then I understand, but please give me the courtesy to let me know soon, so I can plan accordingly."
See the difference? You are saying that this is what you need in A HUSBAND. Whether or not that husband is HIM, is completely up to him.
If you want to see how this is done, look up some of Pearharbor's old threads. She wasn't married -- it was a long-term boyfriend -- but she did it beautifully.
So sorry your going through this. Starsky's advice seems spot on, as usual. JenJam's response was similar to mine too. If these are really your minimum requirements you should insist on them. Seems like your H thinks he can sweet talk his way out of this, and it will blow over. You have to decide if that would be acceptable to you.
Sorry you are hurting. I know it's a crummy sitch to be in. But your h may have to simply wake up and smell the coffee before he can face what he has to face.
Or he won't....prepare for the worst, but hope for the best.
Face this yourself and maybe he'll begin to.
If you pretend all is well when it isn't, in time his behavior WILL repeat itself.
You are stronger than you think.
Originally Posted By: inpain
Well, I loved your ideas thank you so much! My H on the other hand wasn't quite so keen! This response^^^ may be your answer...
You want clarity from him so You'll have clarity in Your choices. I mean,
Given the givens, that's what you need, right?
So Look at his actions, (or lack thereof.) Maybe he is being clear.
In his ACTIONS.. I want to slightly edit how you said the below comments. See if it helps YOU be More Clear & assertive, and less wishy washy sounding. Project clarity even if you don't yet feel it.
So, I said to him I've been thinking of a few things that would maybe help me feel that I told him what to do to show me he is serious about how much he loves me and wants to work things out....
his response to writing OW a no contact letter? he kind of snorted and said "be a bit difficult when I don't know how to contact her" (he doesn't know it but I know her email - I haven't used it but of course when/if he wrote such a letter we could email it but I thought it best not to divulge that I know it at this stage!) I agree you should not reveal your sources of info. But again, look at HIS reaction.
He is happy to go to MC although doesn't see how talking to anyone can help.
"Talking" isn't what will help.
Clarifying YOUR needs and HIS CHOICES- to do or not to do...will help.
So he IS willing to go, but you want to know why. (Don't ask him that, just discuss it here Or with the mc).
Is it So he can check it off the "I tried" list? OR b/c he thinks he can snow you there? OR b/c he thinks it might help diffuse things...OR all of these?
IDK if it matters why, IF he finally truly HEARS YOU, and
sees that You are the aggrieved party, not him.
He is the one who needs to begin the work of restoring your trust so that you can do the "real" work of getting past this and forgiving. ..
the STD tests he raised his eye brows, tutted and snorted all at once!! - that was the only response I got - when I asked why he reacted like that he said "I haven't slept with anyone so why do I need tests?" "why? B/C I don't trust you enough to be intimate, but I would like to" (if that's how you feel).
For me, (and maybe just me), I am not as concerned about STDs as some. I base that on whether the possible OW is a total skank ho or in a monogamous r, (well, not that monogamous I suppose, but you take my point)
and also what sexual habits you & H practice.
I also said I would like to change the password of his email account so that he can only access it with me present - he was not a happy bunny at all!! says I'm being sneaky and how can I call him for lying to me when I'm doing things like this!!!! He's projecting. Not a good sign.
He has to either do the work, or shut up & stop pretending he's in the marriage.
So....I don't know - I feel so lonely and empty and to be honest he doesn't seem to me like he can be bothered to fix this.
He's either just Not into doing the work, AND OR
he's being like a suddenly caught child who still insists "it wasn't ME!"
when he's the only kid in the room with the broken vase. Either way,
you can tell him in MC what you need and
IF YOU ARE PREPARED FOR THE ANSWER YOU LEAST WANT - (i.e., that when it comes right down to it, he's done, b/c HE won't work on things,)
then give him the ultimatum.
Know that ultimatums are dangerous things when you are not ready for them to make the choice you don't want.
OTOH, a clearly given ultimatum can give YOU clarity. Given the givens, Clarity is what you need & want most now, correct?
If you decide to give him the boot,
it doesn't mean he won't then snap out of things and do the work. That could happen.
In fact, IF there's a way to save this marriage, the only way to get what YOU need to make this m to work, is HIM doing the work to make you feel safe enough to let him back into your heart and the marriage.
How else can it happen? You cannot go on like THIS (who could?) SO really,
what choice do you have? Short term solutions are NOT solutions.
Ignoring it won't work. Letting him off too easily will also fail in the long run.
I am NOT referring to any punitive measures.
I'm big on Keeping the Road Home, Paved and Smooth.
But your sitch is one in which you'll find yourself again & again,
IF YOU are Not clear and strong now, about Unacceptable behavior in a m.
Still, you must work on YOU, no matter what course of action HE chooses.
HE is irrelevant to THAT work, and I hope you see that.
Self improvement is a cliche lightly tossed about. But it's the best thing about DBing
b/c genuinely working on ourselves, is the KEY TO OUR HAPPINESS.
Not them...US...
make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
I've calmed down a bit from last night. I think he's still feeling guitly/bad/not wanting to talk and that's fine for now. Let's focus on a positive here - he's agreed to go to MC.
My advice now would be to arrange that, let go of the rest of your requests for the time being and avoid ALL R talks outside of MC.
My H (when he was a WAS) would not talk to me AT ALL, but as soon as in MC it all came out. I think hang on in there, work on yourself (poss low self esteem?) and let the rest go to MC. I know it sounds cliched but you ARE stronger than you give yourself credit for. Pull back, wait for MC and mainly work on YOU.
Take care
JJ xxxxx
Bomb (ILYBINILWY, don't want to be married)Sept05 Seperated Sept/Oct 05 Oct 06 - H recomitted July 11 - I am now a WAW.
WOW! thanks for such a great post! I've read and re read several times - I think I know what you mean that I need to be more specific with him.
I think I have done this over the weekend - it has been an awful weekend
Saturday he was pretty awful saying there was obviously no point bothering because I was never going to believe his version of events. I said that it doesn't matter if I believe him because marriages can still be fixed if someone has had an A and that I didn't feel I could not believe his own words in his letter. I stated again that to recover I need a no contact letter, MC, total tranparency with access to his emails and phone and STD tests, although this time I did try to say I would need anyone I was married to do this as per Starky's advice .
He had to go out for some supplies for a project he is finishing in the house - he came back with a bead for my Pandora bracelet argh!!!! I do know from the 5LL book that H expresses love with gifts as he doesn't seem to do talking (exept to OW funnily enough!) but I just could not believe that when the situation is this serious and this close to ending our M he goes and buys some jewelry!!!! He said he knows it doesn't fix things but he wanted to let me know he loves me.
I agree with you that his reactions to my requests are speaking much louder than his words - he says he loves me, wants us to be happy again together but he is doing nothing!!
Phew! thanks for the advice to read Pearls threads - I have been reading them on and off all weekend and am going to continue - she did great - hoping I can be that strong and insistant!
H has written a no contact letter after I explained to him that I need to know he's told her where to go this time by seeing it with my own eyes. He said they haven't been in contact for months anyway and that it would be dragging things back up - I said "you hadn't heard from her for 2 years when she suddenly decided to hunt you down and contact you - I am not going to take that ever again, you need to tell her to stay out of our lives!" he got it when I said that - this is what he's written - I'd appreciate knowing what you all think before I send it?? To me it doesn't seem very strong considering what has happened. He has written it on the basis that all they've done is talk whereas I was hoping for a little more seeing as his letter states he loved her and they'd been having a PA!
Over the past few weeks (me) has gone through a lot of pain having found out we had still been in contact with each other I have appologised to (me) and promised that i will never make any contact with you again as I try and rebuild the trust I have broken. I love my family very much and I betrayed them terribly and now plan to build the bridges I have broken, with this in mind there will be no further contact from myself to you and as such I do not wish you to contact me.
.