complaining prior to our dance lesson that she still isn't dancing enough. I am thinking WTF do you want from me?
That is code, I think. The answer to WTF is what Starsky said in the post above.
Quote:
My W asked me to cuddle her last night.
She is telling you what she wants. Time to man up and even of you don't initiate ML, kiss her neck, stroke her arm, rub her thigh...do something. It's time.
Me 44 She 46 S13 D9 M18 T23 3 years DB'ing Successfully busted
As you two don't speak directly but instead sort of "dance" around the issues with head games it sounds in your last couple posts that she "in CL Speak" is giving you fair warning that her patients is wearing thin and she is going to to pursue a sexual relationship with someone else again if you dont.
I'm referring to the cuddle comment and this humiliating doozy-
"My W and I had dinner with our dance teachers. During the meal, we were talking about couples being expessive with one another. My W stated that she doesn't feel anything special when dancing with me (referring to th physical connection). I was embarrassed, and didn't comment on it."
Starsky, I don't know. It seems like a big step. I don't think I could relax enough to do it. I don't think she could relax enough to do it. There must be smaller steps along the way.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
Tmite, It's difficult being vulnerable in a M like I've had. You don't seem to empathize with or validate that, so your advice has little credibility with me.
CL
CL 53 W 54 M 20 yrs. 03'-09' Separation + Old Patterns + GAL 10-14' Piecing
"The Master allows things to happen. She shapes events as they come."
It takes a lot to get me to post these but your instant dismissal of Tmites advice is one of those occasions where I feel I just need to say something.
Your followers have kindly interpreting your W behaviour into understandable words which You may or may not feel like you are able to act on, but to all of us it is clear what your W is hinting at. When she asks for a cuddle she is making herself vulnerable for you to take advantage. When she ridicules or embarrasses you she is looking for a “caveman” reaction from you, but when you follow your normal avoidance strategy she gets annoyed and banishes you to the spare room, (Beware I can see that one coming soon).
So no advice is being offered here I just wanted to say don’t be so dismissive of others advice because the actions will take you out of your comfort zone.
Take care and keep trying
Lanzo
Me:50 W: 49 T:20yrs M: 14 yrs D:11 2005 PA 2006: EA (2003 : 2007) 2007: April ILYBNILWY Aug PA, Sept Separate 2008: Feb Piecing 2009 Limbo 2011: Separated (same house) 2013: Divorcing
I am glad my old friend Lan posted this cause I have erased a similar post this morning. It was actually one similar to Tmite's but then read the response and backed off. But then I remembered all those harsh posts by my friends and decided I would give the favor back, because it was a favor for me...
CL, you cant "dance away" the issues. You cant keep avoiding issues hoping they will magically resolve whether that is sexual intimacy, unhealthy patterns, unmet needs, cruel behaviour...
I am sorry but ballroom dancing (or any kind of dancing) cant replace an intimate relationship. I am sure it can strengthen one cause of the quality time spent together but it cant be the foundation of it. Sometimes, to me, an outsider, it seems you have it the other way around.
It also seems to me, your wife (although behaving like a selfish princess all the time) is more ready to deal with her issues than you are. I dont want to sound harsh but as a woman, I would definitely want more than a motivated-excellent dance partner. And yes, I agree, patience is not unlimited. For months you are focusing on dance routines and competitions and that is great (I love ballroom dancing myself, all the latin dances, especially mambo)to the point that sometimes I have caught myself wondering after reading your posts "ok, enough with dancing, what's going on with your M!!!!?".
I dont want to upset you, just offering another view. Kalni
I would suggest that you read Passionate Marriage.
CL, you know I've been with you all along, and we're ALL pulling for you. But I agree with the others, above. It's time to stop forever changing your Subject lines on an internet message forum, and actually confront your wife on these difficult issues.
It's time to take some RISK, and lose the fear. I do completely understand why this is terrifying (I am a world-class conflict avoider/pleaser myself!). But I also understand that it will give you your best chance of success in gaining back a complete and fulfilling relationship with your wife.
Bolero is cool, and perhaps ML is too large a step at this point but how about some real foreplay?
Like I said, how about nuzzling her neck? How about your hand around her waist and your crotch against her butt? SOMETHING.
Your wife is physical and sexual and I think would like both a more physical presence from you toward her and sex in general. I suspect, this is actually easier to do than you would ever imagine. Give her a little something to work with and I think, she will help you move forward.
Quote:
There must be smaller steps along the way.
Try just a little bit. The minimal amount of any kind of sexual/physical/foreplay type action you can muster the courage for and see what happens. Pure DB'ing. Experiment and watch for the results. If she doesn't eat you alive, she will at least be more agreeable the next day.
Remember what happened when you complimented her improving appearance? How might she react if you massaged her shoulders for a few minutes? How life threatening could that possibly be?
I went back to 2003 to start reading some of your sitch from the beginning.
My take away is this. You are a kind, concerned, thoughtful, gentle man, who for 8 years is unable or unwilling to give your wife what she seems to need in marriage.
You have earnestly addressed numerous peripheral issues but will not deal with the real issue.
It's a two way street and boy can she be a piece of work but from where I sit, a lot of her behavior is perhaps a reaction to feeling rejected and unwanted.
If I may be so blunt, the vagina is perhaps the most powerful force in the universe, can you imagine what that does to a woman's self esteem when her husband is uninterested in or refuses to make love with her? People act out when they are hurting. My feeling is that 80% of her nuttiness is based upon this....and probably another 10% is based upon having lived this way for so long, she doesn't know how to feel normal anymore.
I really do believe she desires intimacy, she wants to be taken by a man. The time has never been more right for manly action and a leap of faith.
As always, I wish you the best, good luck.
Me 44 She 46 S13 D9 M18 T23 3 years DB'ing Successfully busted
