But I will not accept ALL the blame. And it appears that the LBS take 90% of it. And I believe that is an unreasonable amount of blame. 50/50 is a better value.
When I look at some of the old posts by Coach and others, it wasn't so one sided. Go back and see for yourselves.
Where are the consequences for bad behavior?
You shouldn't except all the blame.
LBS should take 100% ownership of THEIR part of the M failure. The WAS has their 100% of their half to own. The question is who actually shows up here? Unless the WAS is complete trash, they left because their needs were not getting met. Bad behavior, yes, but who are we to judge them when we have to work on ourselves too. (Misdemeanor vs Felony - Two wrongs don't make a right)
Coach, Robx, Puppy, J3B, 25, etc (List is long) ALL came to a point where they fixed themselves where they knew and felt "I like me now, I'm done putting up with the bad behavior". Once they came to that point, they executed clear boundaries as to what is unacceptable to their well being. Some put up the boundary right away and started working on themselves while they waited. Several of them, not all, had spouses in affairs, some multiple affairs.
Don't let the hardline approach fool you into thinking someone fresh into this $h!t will be able to pull it off correctly. Everyone starts at the same point of devastation, hopefully, they grow to make the correct decisions for the rest of their lives. Accept that you can't change the past; accept the present for what it is and move on for you.
As far as "consequences for the bad behavior?". What do want the punishment to be? Force them to be with you the rest of their life? Stoned to death? etc? If you set a boundary, change your ways, and accept the fact that you can't CHANGE another person; then you moving on, is their loss. Their journey. Their consequence. Their Life.
Affairs are highly ADDICTIVE, sometimes they just CAN'T stop until they look inside, regardless of our changes and efforts. All we can do is hope one day they see the damage they caused and they better themselves. If they never do? Well, hopefully you're so far down the road that you finally stopped watching.
in the beginning i came here looking to save something that was already beyond saving. it ended and i left here, couldn't come back for a long time, the colors, the stories, everyone else going through this was too much, too many triggers bringing back bad memories. after a long while i came back and post on random threads, hoping my experience can help others. or help myself.
DB is said to help save a marriage. sometimes it does.
but what it really is about is saving yourself. doing what makes you a better person not for the WAS, but for your own mental health. making yourself more attractive, but for your own confidence. doing whats right, to prevent yourself from having to feel guilty in the future. being a better parent for your children.
if that saves your marriage, then great.
if not, then at the very least you've saved yourself. and thats no small thing.
but it really is all about you. everything you do should be about you.
"In a ham and eggs breakfast, the hen is involved, but the pig is committed".
BTW, I love a good debate... And you lawyers can debate...
But you don't "debate" SBH. You merely repeat your assertions.
You look for places to insert "STOP BASHING THE LBSer!!!"
even when it's clear no one is "bashing" the LBser.
Where'd you even get that from this thread?
When I state the MWD/DB belief that it's NOT our job to show the spouse the consequences of their actions, b/c life does that for them, you
reduce that statement to one saying "be a doormat."
That statement is not responsive to what was being said here.
It's very black and white to you. The idea that somehow our moral compass is doomed b/c I asked 2step about forgiveness,
is insulting. Yet it makes sense that it would come from someone w/no idea what forgiveness looks like.
But This is not a debate. It's a harangue. [/b] Here, We're discussing the value of the personal growth we've experienced by coming here, opening our hearts to strangers, and truly processing another point of view.
We've looked within, which takes a lot of guts. We chose to react to a blow to our hearts, by trying to learn from it. We chose to do what WE could, to know we have done our very best. We've endured, we've grown and We have changed for the better.
You think there are people who promote "no consequences on this site"?
You have missed yet another valuable piece of this whole approach.
You seem to seek out my posts so you can argue with them,
to insert your belief that the LBS must "face the consequences", and to assign blame the way you think it should be assigned.
This isn't a trial. We've had something bad happen in our lives and for many of us, it's VERY unfair.
EVEN SO, for those of us who are honest with ourselves and dig deep, we usually find that unless we picked a really bad egg as our partner, we're partly responsible for the marital problems too. You can harangue and stomp around about that all over this site, trying to restructure it to conform with your beliefs, but That changes the whole discussion here. So
why not just start your own thread?
There is a beautiful flavor to 2steps posts, which I don't want to change.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Your post to me was fantastic and I could tell it came from the heart and while others disagree your contribution to so many has been an inspiration. Don’t go anywhere I WILL answer your question.
So many have helped me along this journey that I will thank them all but I wanted to give a special thanks at some point to thank two very special posters to me.
Michelle LT who from the very beginning stuck around here helping me and keeping me in check, SO many have helped I will address each person but Michelle is very special to me
LIS: If you are still out there. You were my rock and my sunshine for a long time. I know you have gone from the boards but in your words I still find comfort.
SR BITS- What can I say. You know how I feel about each one of you. See you in the tree house
I'm glad to have met you. Men like you were on the boards some years back & were such Godsends to me. How miraculous.
((( )))
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Boundaries Denver. It's about what is or is not acceptable behavior.
It's about respect for yourself.
Hmmm... I don't pretend to be in a position to define what is or what isn't acceptable behavior for another human being... whether they are married, separated, or divorced.
Do you honestly believe that your W appreciates that you define what is and what isn't acceptable behavior for her?
I am familiar with Coach and some of the other vets who advocate the hard line approach to A's. Very familiar. I struggled for a while trying to choose what approach to adopt ... which approach was best for my sitch.
Ultimately, I chose to reject the hard line approach. BUT, I've also learned, as Faith stated in his reply to you, that there is a time and a place to use boundaries.
I am also familiar with your sitch SBH. I kept up with it when you used to update.
Yes, I know your W had an EA. And that you do not believe that it was ever a PA.
I saw Sandi pound you day after day for being self centered ... for being impatient with your W bc she would not ML... and for not understanding your W's emotional state.
Do you believe that your hard line approach caused your W to end that EA... I will assume that you do bc you advocate it.
If so... she probably felt that she HAD to end that EA. That she had no choice. How do you think that made her feel as a human being SBH? Not as your W, but as a human being with the right of free will?
Do you think that she does NOT think about her OM today if she was forced to end that EA?
If she felt forced to end it... my guess is that she thinks about him... or at least did for quite some time.
Do you feel good about the fact that you forced your W to stay in her M and drop her EA? Do you wonder if it's what SHE really wanted?
The problem under this possible scenerio is that she didn't end it of her own free will... after she had had an opportunity to deal with whatever life issue that she was dealing with.
If she DID end freely and without influence from you, your values, or your definition of acceptable behavior...
Then your hardline approach or views really have no bearing on anything at all... because they had no effect on your own W's actions.
See... our WAS's have to choose their own path. We cannot force them to do anything at all. We CAN choose how WE respond to the path that they choose.
Forgiveness? What would any relationship in life be without it?
Punishment and/or consequences? Where does that get us? Divorced? ... um, yes...
And if we, the LBS, choose to punish our S who has chosen what we believe is unacceptable behavior by leaving them, walking away, divorcing, exposing or whatever... what have we done??
WE have broken our OWN M vows! We have made the choice that it is too hard to forgive or to accept that our S has made a mistake... a poor choice. That it is too hard to stick with our M through a very 'bad' time.
Do 2 wrongs make a right SBH?
Do we do ourselves disfavor by choosing to play tit for tat on M vows with our WAS's?
I think so.
I view my W as close, if not closer, to me than any family member that I have... she is the person that I CHOSE to spend the rest of my life with ... through good times AND bad... through sickness AND health...
I choose unconditional love for my W... despite her faults, despite her poor choices, despite the times when she chooses a path for her own life AS A HUMAN BEING trying to find her way through this life... a path that I may not agree with.
In the end... I think that I will be able to look myself in the mirror and have more self respect for MY choices to do this than I ever would doing otherwise.
And if my W and I reconcile our M... She will know that I stood by her, remained committed... that I loved her .. through a hell that we BOTH created.
M 43 X 38 T 13 W moves out of home 11/2010 Roller coaster from hell 2/2011-5/2012 I request divorce 5/2012 W moves home 6/2012 Good time 7/2012 - 1/2015 I leave 3/2016 process of divorce
Thank you for this post, Denver. I have been struggling with my own anger and disappointment about my W's continued EA, and recently have been ready to throw in the towel. You words hit home and brought clarity to my thinking.
Sorry to hijack the thread, 2step.
H 56 W 48 D27,S21 SS25 SS22 Severely autistic M(#2 for both) 9 1/2 yrs. "I've never loved you" 3/7/2011 Separated 8/7/2011 BITS
Awwww... 2Step, you make me cry. I'm never far away and often lurking. Had to take a break for awhile and start putting together the pieces of my own life. I am so very proud of you. Very proud of everything you have learned and accomplished. I know someday you will make some woman very, very happy. For now, work on making you and your daughter happy. You both deserve it after the year that you have had. Find forgiveness in your heart. It is very healing. This includes forgiveness for YOU too. And while I understand having to take a break from here as I had to do that myself, please do NOT stay away long as you have some incredible insight to offer others. I am honored to have met you, sweet friend.
Denver - Once again, your words astound me. I needed that post. I have been so angry with STBX recently that I almost forgot that I love and loved her. She has chosen to be with OM/Boss and there is truly nothing I can do to change that. I can't force her to stop what she feels she needs in her life. I simply need to respect her needs and desires. That doesn't mean I need to agree with them or condone them. It also doesn't mean I need to be the door mat I have been in the past. If she ever chooses me in the future, then I will deal with that at that time. Right now though, she does not choose me.
I'm not sure I am conveying my thoughts all that well. But 2 years after returning, something "clicked" in my brain when I read your post. Something I had been missing and so many (I think) tried to get me to understand.
Awwww... 2Step, you make me cry. I'm never far away and often lurking. Had to take a break for awhile and start putting together the pieces of my own life. I am so very proud of you. Very proud of everything you have learned and accomplished. I know someday you will make some woman very, very happy. For now, work on making you and your daughter happy. You both deserve it after the year that you have had. Find forgiveness in your heart. It is very healing. This includes forgiveness for YOU too. And while I understand having to take a break from here as I had to do that myself, please do NOT stay away long as you have some incredible insight to offer others. I am honored to have met you, sweet friend.
