A New Chapter Begins

[Truegritter]

Very cool ^^^^ for you to come back here for this sofaraway.

Sons tend to keep things inside and find it hard to tell their feelings.

I am one of these sons.

I haven't talked much about my own childhood but my folks were separated from when I was 8 until I was 13 off and on.

Mom was put in the hospital for suicide attempt when I was at summer camp (11 or 12 years old)

Try to keep things normal MHL.

It may be hard. But do the best you can. I don't remember much from that time of my life so good or bad...I coped the best way a child can I guess.

My sister, as most of you know, was not that lucky. And ironically she is my memory for then. She bore that burden.

I guess what I am saying is just be there for your children. Don't be the storm. Don't get caught up in it.

FOR THEM.

They need stability more than anything else now M.

Just focus on that.

The only thing I do remember from then is the uncontrolled emotion...chaotic and maniacal at times...all around me.

All you want is for it to stop.

It is strange I have not written or said this to anyone. What it felt like then.

At least not that I can remember. Your description of what is happening with your children...

Brought me back to that time.

I was the older brother though. Had to take care of my baby sis. So tried my best.

Your daughter may feel that obligation and the anger associated with it as a child thrust into that role.

Try to lighten her burden and let her know it's ok.

What you do for them now makes a difference.

Be the best you can be

as I know you will.

[crushednstuck]

MHL, Thanks for sharing on this post. I am terrified that my D8 and S6 have your kids' experiences in their future.

My W is a product of marital problems between her folks. She has been in two failed marriages. She doesn't understand that the pain she felt as a child has led to extreme control issues which lead to begrudging compromise and blame for those around her when things blow up.

Most distressing is that she fails to see the pain she felt as a kid is being inflicted on our D at the same age by her choices. She has kept contact with the kids, but the cycle continues and I have no control over it. My W has spent the last two years looking for validation that she is a "good Mom".

However, your responses to your XW's actions are admirable and provide a road map for me to attempt to emulate.

The only thing I can offer is to be good to yourself. Sustained periods of high stress, being SuperDad have a devastating effect on your health. Your kids need you, but you need your strength. Find some time for breather. I struggled when I realized I was translating my anger and upset into impatience with my kids. Decompress.

Best to you. and thanks

[AJM]

Thank you for sharing this post MHL.
TG, that was very moving and hit me between the eyes.

I've struggled with similar emotional rollercoasters since stbx left and fought VERY hard to get her and the kids to reconnect. While it has resulted in daughter staying with her mom full time, I am very happy to read this as it reinforces that I did the right thing. It hurts, but the reinforcement helps.

Not even sure why I was reading your post tonight. Hmm.. good thing I did though

Hang in there and let the kids and their mother work it out. As Jack pointed out, you have nothing to lose by letting her know exactly how you feel. Let her be the one to hang up and put distance between you. Your daughter and son need you, and that should be your focus, right?

Peace,
AJM

[MHL]

Wow, I am absolutely overwhelmed with the responses here.

I find that I do not need to come back and drink from the fountain as often as I used to but when you do need it, the water sure is good......

Thank you all.

Update.....

I had an "family counseling" appointment yesterday with my D14 and a social worker, this is part of my D14's treatment program....no real purpose of the meeting other than to gauge where my D14 is at and talk about what things will look like when she returns home.

Well the meeting was only supposed to last an hour and I was there for 2 hours...........

My Daughter is doing much better......not out of the woods but doing better.

She can somewhat remove herself from the situation and can see what she needs to do.......detach from Mom......just does not know how to do it.

What is amazing to me is how much of what she is doing is DBing.

She is using the same language....Detach, Expectations, Spinning.....finding her path. I hate that she is dealing with this crap right now.......I feel as though she has somewhat been robbed of her childhood.

However....

I am glad that these issues are being dealt with now and not swept under the rug to be dealt with later in life in the form of my D14's own Mid Life Crisis. It can truly have a multi-generational impact......looking back on my XW's family history I can clearly see that this disfunction has been passed down for 4 generations now. IT STOPS WITH HER.....HOPEFULLY.

More than likely my D14 will get out of the hospital today or tomorrow......they are fine tuning her meds and want to make sure everything is stable.

As for my XW, I called her after the meeting. She had been texting me prior to find out the status of our D14. My XW does not have access to my D14 at the hospital nor can she get any information, there is a security code you must have when you call in. These were the wishes of my D14 and the staff in the facility have to follow her wishes, which they agree with her on...... Contact with her Mother would not help my D14, and my XW has complied with those wishes.

I gave my XW the factual details of our D14, without any of my thoughts or opinions, just the facts. After that I continued to talk to my XW about the fragile state that our S10 is in, I also told her of his breakdown on Sunday night b/c he missed her and the fact that she had not returned his calls over the weekend. Again I was very factual.

I said.....
The last time you spoke to S10 was Friday morning when you dropped him at school.
He tried to call you twice on Friday night and left a voice mail.
He tried to call you four times on Saturday and left another voice mail.
He did not hear from you all weekend nor did he hear from you on Monday.
It upsets him when he misses you and you do not return his calls.

That is all I said on that then I told her that I needed to tell her something else.

It is unacceptable that I cannot reach you or get a return call from you in a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the children......especially when one of them is in the hospital.

I tried to call you Sunday night after S10 went to bed, I tried on my cell, my home phone and left a message on your voice mail. I then tried to call your boyfriend's number which you have instructed me to use in the past because of lack of coverage on your phone when you are visiting him. His voice mail is full and he has no personalized greeting to let me know if I even reached the correct number.

This is unacceptable.......please do something about it.

Her response was that she would take care of it.

While I was talking I kept my voice calm and cool and it was very businesslike......

However

My hands were shaking I was so mad just talking about it.

When I got off the phone and calmed down I contemplated what would have happened if I "Blew her out of the Water"......

If I had unloaded on her she either would have hung up or responded in kind.......never really hearing the message that I wanted to get through to her......which was......

Make herself available within a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the kids.

Message sent.

Message delivered.

Mission accomplished.

More on my thoughts around my children in a bit.

[ericmsant2]

MHL

First off, I hope the kids are doing better!

she has never seen such a willing abandonment from a mother such as my XW

I would suspect that you XW does not feel that she has abandoned the kids. Hell my STBXW would have responded “we’ll they are with their father”.
I agree with Grit comment down there VVVV

IMO there is so much guilt wherever she turns she cannot get away from it unless she disconnects with the ones she is causing pain.

She hurts and most likely feels the best way to avoid everyone else from getting hurt is to run away and distance herself. I would suspect that it is a vicious cycle…she calls the kids, they say they miss her and do not understand her actions, she looks inside and sees her selfishness, she can’t stand the pain so she stop looking and runs.

IMO, nothing you do or say will change this. Nothing. All you can do is continue to be the parent that your kids need.

I simply told my X-MIL to tell her daughter to "Wake up", to tell her she is losing her children and causing damage that will last a lifetime or more and unfortunately will touch generations to come.

I would have said the same….do you expect that this conversation will somehow make your XW see the errors of her ways? If so, then take a look at your expectation. You may be setting yourself up to get even more pissed off when she does not respond the way YOU expect her too.

she is trying to put me back in the very role that I have fought to shed. She wants me to tell her what to do.

As the only responsible parent….right now YOU should tell her what to do! You are telling her what to do for YOUR kids….you know this. Who gives a rats as* what she thinks about. What are you concerned she may call you “controlling”. Fine…you are controlling for your kids, which is what matters here.

This is one time you can be a A-Hole if you have too.

Maybe a A-hole with class and dignity is all that I would add.

IMO, take a step back and realize what you are trying to achieve and WHY you are trying to achieve it. If your goal is to help your kids through this process, (assuming you are doing it from a healthy place) everything that can be done should be done!

I wonder if she ever will wake up but if I had to guess I would say that she never will "get it", and even if she did I don't think it is in her personality to admit it or apologize for it.

I’ll play devil’s advocate here…..didn’t she probably say/think the same thing about YOU? That YOU would never change. Well U did. So maybe MHL, she may change. I would not put it past her. In terms of an apology, one day she just may. She may have to deal with the consequences of her actions…..just like in some way you have as well... Not your problem or focus though….your kids should be the focus.

Piling on more of the same? Guilt?
She IS NOT rational and applying logic to this will fall on deaf ears.

Thanks for this post Grit.

My Daughter is doing much better.

Amen!

It is unacceptable that I cannot reach you or get a return call from you in a reasonable amount of time when it concerns the children

Not sure if this will help BUT I have temporarty court orders in place that stipulate that STBXW must return calls within 24 hrs. Maybe something you can add back into the agreement. IF she does not comply and you feel it is in the best interest of the kids to REMOVE them from her craziness, well then you may want to secure full custody.

Bottom line my friend….is you MUST and I know will, carry the responsibility of being the stable parents in your kids lives. In some ways, I can relate to how tough and frustrating it is. Guess what, life can be tough and frustrating….IF YOU ALLOW IT to be.

Be dad, be friend, be everything you can be for your kids. As for your XW – time has a way of changing people perspective and actions….maybe…in time she will look inside and change – maybe not. Either way, you must do what you need to for your kids.

Close your eyes for a second……



Breath…..



Let go….


And go continue to be that kick as* dad that you are.


FWIW, I am proud of you!

Eric

[KenF]

MHL
i was suicidal. still am at times. without any frame of reference to what is normal, i believe my childhood was abnormal. and it still affects me these years later.

you dont have to be perfect for your children, you just have to be there always. you can admit fear, pain, weakness to them, they'll appreciate they're not the only ones going through it.

one of the driving factors of suicidal tendencies, for me, was feeling alone. as if i were the weak one while everyone else was much stronger.

boys are taught to internalize, let your son know you know he has pain. i believe a boys pain becomes anger. give him space to vent, even its beating a tree with a bat.

but most importantly, from what i believe, is to be there for them. try to be as consistent as possible, apologize if you slip.

keep up the good work, as bad as this is, i think you're doing a great job with the situation you were given.

[AJM]

MHL, my heart goes out to you in this. The rest are right - you will pay this price for a long time. The reasons are unimportant, but I think you can see how important it is to do.

Glad to hear your daughter is learning the skills to cope and even thrive. I'm also glad I caught this. I heard about my son a few days back and how he is not blaming himself. My daughter on the other hand... well, it'll be a while before that plays out.

Keep up the work and continue to focus on your kids. They need it.

AJ

[MHL]

Update

Well I am happy to report that my D14 returned home from the hospital last Friday night after spending 10 days there.

SHE IS MUCH BETTER.......THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ALL THE KIND WORDS, THOUGHTS and PRAYERS.

I never thought I would be a proponent of children being on "mood altering" drugs but I can see a "marked difference in my daughter since she has started AD's. I just wish that she had been on them for a couple of weeks prior to going to the hospital. It is possible that we may have avoided that whole thing.

I can see that she is still on the "rollercoaster" however the dips are not so deep and the peaks are not too high. She is finding while she cannot totally escape the "ups" and "downs" in life, she can make it through and still be happy........

a lesson we all learn in TIME.

As for my XW, I have found that my anger with her has subsided substantially. I can see that with regards to my children I was "looking" at her far too much. I was sitting in the theatre, drink and popcorn in hand watching the MLC movie play.

I found that I have had to "let go" of yet another expectation I did not realize I had.........that is the expectation that somehow my XW will at least "act" in the best interest of our children........

NOT SO........duh.

The other thing that I have come to realize AGAIN, is that I absolutely have to let the relationship just "BE" with my D14 and my XW.

I am no longer going to "advise" my XW on what she "should" be doing to "re-establish" her relationship with HER daughter. I got the following email from her yesterday.....

XW.......Do you think it would be okay to text D14?

Me........I think it is okay for you to try to contact your daughter. I do not know how she will respond or if she will respond at all.

XW......OK, Thanks!!!

That was all I said. I can see from her question and response that she might view me as the "gate keeper" to her daughter.

If she tries what I say to do and it does not work......I get blamed.

If I say that it is not a good idea to do or say a certain thing and there is no reconciliation..........I get blamed.

The more involved I am then the more I risk getting blamed.

Basic rule number one in dealing with MLC..........get out of the way!!!!

Amazing how simple the advice is..........duh!!!

A special thanks to Grace and Ian for sharing your experiences and perspectives.

AJM, I hope that your D16 will come around......FWIW my daughter just wants to feel worthy of her mother's efforts. Even if your D16 is not responding I think it is important to let her know that you think of her daily.

Grit and Ken,
I want to also thank you for sharing how you felt as a child. I know my daughter feels isolated and alone at times.....at least she is reaching out. I do see my son is internalizing it and try to be his "safe place" everyday.

To all,

I hope that my story can help you and where you at in the storm that you find yourself in....while I did not save my marriage I did save myself (with a little help ) and "saving yourself first" is the very best thing you can do for yourself....ever!!

Always, always remember......

Life is Good and it is Good to be Alive!!!

Cheers

[AJM]

The other thing that I have come to realize AGAIN, is that I absolutely have to let the relationship just "BE" with my D14 and my XW.

I am no longer going to "advise" my XW on what she "should" be doing to "re-establish" her relationship with HER daughter. I got the following email from her yesterday.....

XW.......Do you think it would be okay to text D14?

Me........I think it is okay for you to try to contact your daughter. I do not know how she will respond or if she will respond at all.

XW......OK, Thanks!!!

I know you know this, but I have found it best to stay out of the way as well. For me, it helps to stay out of the way of XW (whether MLC or not? Likely but I'm not a pro It's the kids that need the help - they never had a choice. Getting yourself right and then working to support the kids... that's about what you can do, right? It is for me.

Thanks for the update and thanks for the thoughts regarding my daughter. I find that it is likely better to take the other approach - distance to let her grow. But she is in a different place than your family. So is my xw. She even surprised me by thinking of somebody other than herself last night. Brief, but good for my kids.

MHL - hang in there. My guess is that things will flip flop in a way that feels painful to you. My reasoning is that your children have a deep need for their mother and vice versa. Once your xw gets on solid ground, she'll find a way to reconnect with the kids and your kids may be like mine and feel guilt for reconnecting. You should not interfere with this, even though you may want to chew your own leg off before letting that happen. It's not about you, it's about them.

I'm just sharing what I've seen in my own life and with others that I've spoken to. Want to point out that there is a long way to go, but know that regardless of what is said or done, your kids will always know what you did for them and will always come back to you at some point - on their schedule and as they are healed. Help them.

AJ

[MHL]

I am in need of some advice yet again my friends, so once again I come to the fountain for a drink.

As most of you know my D14 has no relationship with my XW and my D14 recently came out of the hospital for thoughts of suicide over the whole situation. My D14 is doing much better and is on AD’s and also takes meds to help her sleep at night which helps also.

My concern today is not so much around my D14 but rather how I deal with my XW moving forward. I really am trying to have as little contact with her as possible. Just like my D14, it hurts me to interact with the “alien” that once was my wife, whom I still love. Can’t make myself stop loving the person that was my W, so I am “learning“ to live my life and raise my children while interacting with my MLC XW.

I want to get out of the way as much as I can……..

I really want my interactions with her to polite and cordial…..

In short I don’t want to give her anymore ammunition to load her “blame me” gun. I know I will get blamed no matter what, however I really desire my words, deeds and actions to be pure.

I do hope that one day the “fog” will lift from her eyes, not so that we can reconcile but rather be able to really move on or move forward as partners in raising our children. I feel that even though we are now divorced, I can not be her friend or be friendly with her while she is in MLC. My hopes are that the less I am around her the less I interact with her the more likely she will start to look at herself and see that she is the source of her own pain.

So now for the thing I need help with……..

D14 is “graduating” from middle school to high school. There is a ceremony tomorrow at the school. 2 tickets were given to each child for the parents to attend. D14 brought the tickets home last week and gave them to me. D14 asked if my girlfriend could come to the ceremony. GF said “Yes” she would come. (GF is at my house now in order to attend the ceremony tomorrow). This was all settled last week, I never even considered my XW nor did I mention the event to her. As far as I knew XW was not aware of it.

Well, 2 days ago I get this email from my XW…….

Do you have two tix to D14's graduation?
If so, who is going?

I did not respond, I wanted to wait until I spoke with D14 about it and ask her if she minded if her mother was there.

D14 said, “NO WAY, ABSOLUTELY NOT!!”

When XW was at the house picking up S10 for the night I said to her…….

I got your email and I spoke to D14 and she does not want you there.

My XW got upset and said…..

I did not want you to say anything to D14, I just wanted to come and sit in the back. I did not even want her to know I was there………….

I was somewhat at a loss for words and realized I needed to tell XW about the fact that there were only 2 tickets and that my GF and I were going, so I said……

D14 asked my GF to go and there are only 2 tickets however you can get more but you would have to sit in the overflow room where you can watch the ceremony on closed circuit TV.

XW was angry and sad and as she was getting in her car to leave she said….

I’m the mother…….

Then she left.

Yesterday I got a call from the school counselor (she is fully aware of the sitch) telling me that XW called the school seeking tickets. Counselor asked what D14’s wishes were. I told her the sitch and said I really don’t want to rock the boat with XW or D14. Counselor said that they would offer XW the tickets to the overflow room for the ceremony that all the tickets had been given out already for the auditorium and that all the kids got 2 tickets each, that is it, there are not anymore.

This morning I get the following email from my XW……

You know, I understand D14 does not want me to be at her graduation. But if you want to do everything to help us reconcile, you sure are not showing it by giving GF my ticket.

This is probably the meanest thing you have ever done. I would give anything just to be able to see her, even without her knowing. And one day if we do reconcile, I can say that I was there.

You kept me away from her in the hospital, now this.

I am open to suggestions, 2X4’s, advice just about anything………

I am thinking of not even responding………but even that is a response.

I also am thinking of the woman that is now my GF and her feelings in all of this too, I care about her and her children as does she about me and my children.

Cheers
~C