No, of course it makes sense - it is simply that I think emotionally we have to be in a place where they cannot hurt us for the reconciliation to be effective: perhaps another way of putting it is that in one way they have to want it more than we do, without making themselves vulnerable to us.
My therapist feels that most MLCers - that is people who have major life transition issues, feel deeply inadequate, particularly in relation to their careers and to us. They may be doing fine as the world sees it, but not as they do. That is why OW/OP is always so needy.
Illness in us seems to send them one of two ways - they see us as needing them and it draws them back, OR we look vulnerable and might abandon them [even if they have left us] and this sends them deeper into crisis. The boards are full of people like me where major illness scared the WAS into running harder than ever. Perhaps it is the point in their crisis that we become ill . . don't know.
I just didn't want your hard won equilibrium destablised: only when we are through it do we see how hard won it is!
I understand what you are saying. I do have a question though. Why is it that we are told to act as if (until we get there for real) we are competent and capable to the MLCer?
My H even referred to me "maintaining my image" in a negative way. It was like he was expecting me to curl up in the fetal position after he left (I did for a bit)and not make it without him. He seemed PO that that didn't happen.
In answer to Beatrice, I am tired and I can feel my reattachment over the past month but on the other hand I also feel incredibly strong because I know I am. I have the capacity to care for H and still look out for me atm. H most definitely feels, as you say, most inadequate and yes ow is probably very needy. H shouldn't feel as he does, but I can only support him. He needs to continue to do the work himself. OW is his crutch and this is the way I am trying to view her atm. He needs her but it seems he needs me more if that makes sense. Time will tell!!
It is a noticeable pattern of our MLC WAH for sure.
I have noticed that when I become aloof and detached, H comes back around. The MLC he suffers from will bring him back around as he does not want me to get too far away from his grasp.
He constantly seeks my approval and friendship.
Then, when he "knows" I am still here "for him"...POOF...he runs off again.
I guess I need to understand the dynamics of all of this.
I have believed for a long time now that our Hs do not trust the new and detached us. They think it is just an act to rope them back in. Thus the reluctance to come home. Instead they are willing to continue to thwart all the blame on us and remain stuck.
They wait & watch and wait & watch for a very long time testing the water and maintaining a distance from us just far enough away to torment. Do they gain a perverse pleasure in the tormenting? Are they truly tormented themselves?
I am reaching the place of detachment, I did not really understand how this feels until recently. I now know exactly what it feels like. I do not like it. For me, getting there will be the point of no return. I am fearful that I will become hateful and ultimately will cause permanent damage by my actions and words to a relationship I have worked so hard to save.
For instance, yesterday...My H came to get our son in the am, I was fully aware because of his choice of vehicle that he had been with OW at her place Friday night. In the past I would have tried to engage H with food or kind words and a body language that was accepting and loving for sure. This time, I am disgusted. I am getting so disgusted by even looking at him when I know he is still with her. I had all I could do to glance at him when he spoke and smile with him over conversations with our son.
I am guessing that this is the beginning of total detachment. Disgust and hateful thoughts are not something I have ever felt for him before.
I have read that it is the one who is detached to have all the power. It is common that when the LBS reaches the point of total detachment completely that the WAS wants back in.
Why does it take such extremes?
AND the OW....OH my God!!! These women are in relationships with married men. These women have absolutely no morals or scruples. What possesses them to stay for so long? In my case over 5.5 years.
I know why I have stayed. What makes them stay? They are in a relationship based on cheating and dishonesty.
Beatrice, you are very wise...I think you have the answer to this and it is in total detachment. It's a hard lesson to learn and it's a long road to get there. Most of us should have learned it long ago....
Thank you for your wisdom and support,
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
SA I am not sure that we are told to act as competent and capable to the MLCer. Certainly they cannot cope with our neediness, for a lot of reasons, but the capability and competence are for ourselves.
What I think your husband was reacting to was his lack of certainty that you were OK For him everything is a mask, and he needs to be sure of what is real in the one he truly relies on.
They are not really PO that we don't curl up but they do resent our capability [while relying on it] It sounds contradictory but many MLC responses are not straightforward.
Sanderika, as I understand it, true detachment is not feeling hateful towards our spouses.
The reluctance to come home is I think fear of being unhappy, and guilt at all the pain they caused us. The do not know what they want for the longest time. Usually they do not intend to torement, although sometimes they want others to feel the hurt and pain they do, But I think this varies for each MLCer.
Getting there is not a point of no return. I thought that too, and was therefore, without realising it, afraid of detaching fully. Detaching, as I understand it, is finally being really OK on your own, really OK in yourself, and content with your lot. It doesn't depend in any way, shape or form on what your spouse is doing. Thus they cannot hurt you or harm you by their actions and inactions. It is the place of no expectations. But it isn't a cold dry aloof place. Detached I can feel much more real compassion than I was able to feel before when I was hurt by what he did, and forgiveness was a real struggle.
Sanderika - you cannot save the relationship - you have tolerated bad behaviour for a long time, and if you are now feeling disgust then you are acknowledging what you truly feel and this is authentic and right. This feeling will not last forever.
As to why the OW stays - they are needy damaged women, and so are our WAS. In addition in most cases the WAS is financially bailing them out - not always. Some of the OWs find someone that is better suited to them, and move on, others stay perhaps in the hope that the r will become permanent.
Please believe me when I say that detachment does not harden you, it softens you and enables you to be the person you really are - you aren't always responding or reacting to your WAS. You have time for others, energy you didn't have before and a new zest for life. The negative bit of the path you are on right now is like a rough bit of road before a lovely country walk.
Btw, it took me the longest time to get detached - oddly enough being divorced helped. What I dreaded liberated me!!
Beatrice, thank you so much for your compassion for us all.
Yes, I dread being divorced.
Yes, I have remained hopeful and faithful that our marriage would be repaired and renewed.
I am at a crossroads. I understand that he wants to be friends with me. I do not know how to do this when I do not respect his lifestyle and choice of the OW.
It has been so hard to say goodbye to him when he leaves. He appears to leave with contentment that we are friends. He appears happy and with a calm sense of satisfaction after having kind conversations and accepting (I'm not slamming the door in his face or telling him to wait on the porch or ignoring his calls and hiding upstairs when he contacts) motions from me and son.
It is hard to describe, but he seems relaxed and comfortable in his world. He is obviously liking being friends with me.
However, it is still a very one-sided friendship. He reaches out to converse with me and I refuse to reach out to converse with him.
I have opted to let him say goodbye and I just turn and walk away or go about my business and let him just go. I usually keep up my project w/o skipping a beat or just shut the door which is new for me not to walk him outside.
He has spent a great deal of time reconnecting to son, he has spent the last 7 weekends in a row with him and I know both are enjoying this time a great deal. It does make me happy to see this. It has been a long time coming. H did absolutely nothing with son for well over 5.5 years. Due to this new found relationship I have seen a good deal more of H.
I do not like my disgust and hateful feelings, I hope I can navigate through this relatively quickly.
I understand that I cannot save the marriage, I have done the work required and it appears he isn't really interested in doing the same. Beatrice, I am not gaining any satisfaction in not reaching my ultimate goal which was to restore our marriage. I am still having a hard time realizing this. Thus, I am growing in disgust and hate.
Where am I going from here?
What will come next for me?
I am disappointed that I am not really on the path to detaching.
I recently had an IC appt. and I said that I have lost my future. I really feel like I have. My well planned and hard earned life is gone. I have lost my husband, family and career in this. I am a Mom on her own struggling to find work and peace of mind.
I need to get there by September. We will have a scheduled court appearance then and I need to put an end to the marriage.
Beatrice, you are a wonderful friend, thank you...
Sanderika
ME48/H48MLC T 33y M 28y S16 OW 8/7/05 Bomb 8/16/05 Sep 9/05 H f'd D 10/3/08 D pp'd 1/20/09,7/24/09,12/4/09 D dismissed 2/5/10 H served me D papers again 9/4/10 D dismissed 9/26/11
Sanderika you are in a hard place. Your husband is seeking your friendship. Understand that for him you are on a pedestal, and he feels pretty worthless. He is living in an altered reality, and the OW is below him [if that isn't an unkind thing to say] Thus in his sense of inadequacy, he feels comfortable with her.
Re-read TMAK's thread on reconnection.
When I said that you cannot save the marriage, I meant that you on your own cannot do this. Like you I lost my future and my financial security, and I am older than you! So I know what you mean. I would not oppose the divorce. Just calmly go ahead with it. I promise that two to three months post divorce you will start to feel better. If you want some time out from your h coming round, don't pretend it is OK. It is alright to say that divorce makes a difference. A few months down the line you may feel more like being friendly again.
It is much more authentic not to wear a mask the whole time. If the divorce hurts you then let your husband know this - calmly and with dignity, which is very much your style. You could just say 'I need some time to get used to the idea of being divorced. Could you spend time with our son somewhere else for a while',[ or at your house, but you be out].
My sense here, and I could be wrong is that you have dbed your socks off, but not as much for yourself to flourish and have fun over the past 5+ years. As a divorced woman your h has no more rights than a stranger to come into your home. They simply do not think it through. In fact some even go so far as to think it will be easier to start over once you are divorced, with a clean slate.
In some ways my situation was easier as my h did not come round all the time, and did want to be friends. There are some signs now that he is rethinking this, but at a snali's pace, and I am fine. I can handle it if he does, and I am content if he doesn't.
I do not know if you know anything about Ignatian spirituality [based on the teachings of St Ignatius Loyola] There is a concept of indifference to one's fate which is like detachment. it doesn't mean you do not care, but that you are content with whatever happens, knowing that it will be good for you. I can now see my journey had purpose and meaning for me. Perhaps your well planned and hard earned life is not the best life for you - perhaps there is something else in store.
I think you are on the path to detaching - those feelings of disgust are normal and natural and will pass. Because you have been so nice and so kind you haven't allowed yourself to feel them before. We all feel something like this, I believe, at some point.
While we are 'waiting' for our marriage to be restored we are on tenterhooks and it is our goal. But actually the goal is inside us. That is why they tell us to focus on ourselves, on what we want and need. The restoration of our marriage is what we all come here looking for, and success is still often seen in this happening. But the reality is that MLC is a hard path, and takes a long time. I am not saying we shouldn't give restoring our marriage our best shot, but it may or may not happen, whereas we do have the power to transform ourselves. Hugs
I sense some further change in H. He is slowly but surely moving closer. My therapist suggested I disregard ow's existence as she is a crutch the same way alcohol or drugs maybe and he still needs her atm.
I do wonder about the status of the r with ow. I do know that as D was staying with H all week he did not see ow and when I returned H spent the time with me. I am all too aware that this is a long journey that offers no guarantees. For now, I am feeling a little more positive and I can step back a little, knowing he will seek me out.
