I think Gucci was spot on in one respect. I had the same thought when I read your latest update.
First regardless of how "strong" the husband/wife is with respect to the OM. I 100% believe the spouse has to make the decision to cut off contact on their own. Otherwise, they could just build resentment again.
Secondly, I do worry that you are so eager to start working on things that you don't properly process what went on with your W and the OM. I mean there is a lot of stuff there and I don't believe that any part of you could not be mad at your W, unless you are either a total anomaly or a robot. Some of the stuff she did was crappy and 2X4 time, your W was a willing participant in her A. Ultimately, she made the choices and she did the actions with respect to the OM.
It's OKAY to be mad at your W. It doesn't mean you don't love her, or you don't want to work on things, or can't forgive her. It means you are human and do care. Take the whole text thing, she ask you if were mad at her, you denied it. I don't think you were being honest with yourself or her. Expressing your anger doesn't mean turning into the old you. It's an opportunity to express yourself in a constructive way that is open and honest. I mean if you did something that made your W mad...what would you want? For her to deny it or to be honest about it? Which path is more likely to lead to a better M.
As no one posts their whole lives on here, maybe you are processing it (like in IC, which is good for that BTW.)
You are moving on to a different stage. The DB principles that brought you here get mostly thrown out the window.
I hope the MC session went well.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
In a way, I disagree with Gucci and Harrier (but only from my perspective). I would be more then willing for my wife to have a PA if it meant that we could work things out afterwards. Would it hurt me? Sure it would. Could I get over it? In a heartbeat and never think about it again. To me, my W is the most important thing. The things I did helped drive her away. I will go through pain to get her back. Again, that is just my humble opinion.
I think Gucci was spot on in one respect. I had the same thought when I read your latest update.
First regardless of how "strong" the husband/wife is with respect to the OM. I 100% believe the spouse has to make the decision to cut off contact on their own. Otherwise, they could just build resentment again.
Secondly, I do worry that you are so eager to start working on things that you don't properly process what went on with your W and the OM. I mean there is a lot of stuff there and I don't believe that any part of you could not be mad at your W, unless you are either a total anomaly or a robot. Some of the stuff she did was crappy and 2X4 time, your W was a willing participant in her A. Ultimately, she made the choices and she did the actions with respect to the OM.
It's OKAY to be mad at your W. It doesn't mean you don't love her, or you don't want to work on things, or can't forgive her. It means you are human and do care. Take the whole text thing, she ask you if were mad at her, you denied it. I don't think you were being honest with yourself or her. Expressing your anger doesn't mean turning into the old you. It's an opportunity to express yourself in a constructive way that is open and honest. I mean if you did something that made your W mad...what would you want? For her to deny it or to be honest about it? Which path is more likely to lead to a better M.
As no one posts their whole lives on here, maybe you are processing it (like in IC, which is good for that BTW.)
You are moving on to a different stage. The DB principles that brought you here get mostly thrown out the window.
Brian, you are missing the point. This is not about "getting over it or not." In a way it really has nothing to specifically with an A. It has a lot to do with being open and honest with your spouse. Now unless you are superhuman, I cannot believe you'd be okay with your wife having a PA. I cannot believe that you would not be mad at her for doing that. Do you think people deserved to be cheated on then?
Heck, if you look at some of Denver's early posts, he was clearly angry with W. But he has, too much IMO, focused his anger on the OM. The OM is a symptom of the problems in the M. I know Denver has looked at the causes, he still has a lot of anger at the OM...to the point of almost painting his W as unwilling participant in her own Affair. The anger at the OM is completely justified, but if he buries anger at his W over the Affair, he is doing a disservice to him, his spouse and ultimately his marriage.
I know DB says that you shouldn't show your W anger. But it doesn't, I believe, say you shouldn't have it. If you are truly working on the marriage, you have to work on everything warts and all.
Again, I stress. Being angry for your wife's actions doesn't mean acting out of control. There are effective ways to bring it up without losing control. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife,It doesn't mean you don't respect her, it doesn't mean you don't want to work on the marriage. In fact, marriage studies have shown how often a couple fights has little bearing on their overall happiness with the marriage.
I have 2 kids, I love them unconditionally. Do I get mad at them, at times. Do they get mad at me? You bet. does it mean our relationship is broke? Heck no.
Now Denver and you could give 2 craps about what I'm saying. But I believe my marriage is where it is today because my W and I have much better communication and honesty.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Brian, you are missing the point. This is not about "getting over it or not." In a way it really has nothing to specifically with an A. It has a lot to do with being open and honest with your spouse. Now unless you are superhuman, I cannot believe you'd be okay with your wife having a PA. I cannot believe that you would not be mad at her for doing that. Do you think people deserved to be cheated on then?
Heck, if you look at some of Denver's early posts, he was clearly angry with W. But he has, too much IMO, focused his anger on the OM. The OM is a symptom of the problems in the M. I know Denver has looked at the causes, he still has a lot of anger at the OM...to the point of almost painting his W as unwilling participant in her own Affair. The anger at the OM is completely justified, but if he buries anger at his W over the Affair, he is doing a disservice to him, his spouse and ultimately his marriage.
I know DB says that you shouldn't show your W anger. But it doesn't, I believe, say you shouldn't have it. If you are truly working on the marriage, you have to work on everything warts and all.
Again, I stress. Being angry for your wife's actions doesn't mean acting out of control. There are effective ways to bring it up without losing control. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife,It doesn't mean you don't respect her, it doesn't mean you don't want to work on the marriage. In fact, marriage studies have shown how often a couple fights has little bearing on their overall happiness with the marriage.
I have 2 kids, I love them unconditionally. Do I get mad at them, at times. Do they get mad at me? You bet. does it mean our relationship is broke? Heck no.
Now Denver and you could give 2 craps about what I'm saying. But I believe my marriage is where it is today because my W and I have much better communication and honesty.
Brian, you are missing the point. This is not about "getting over it or not." In a way it really has nothing to specifically with an A. It has a lot to do with being open and honest with your spouse. Now unless you are superhuman, I cannot believe you'd be okay with your wife having a PA. I cannot believe that you would not be mad at her for doing that. Do you think people deserved to be cheated on then?
I would not be ok emotionally if she had a PA (which I think she is anyways). But I would not get mad. That isn't healthy for me. What she does from here till we get back together is out of my control. I can only fix me right now.
Originally Posted By: Harrier
Heck, if you look at some of Denver's early posts, he was clearly angry with W. But he has, too much IMO, focused his anger on the OM. The OM is a symptom of the problems in the M. I know Denver has looked at the causes, he still has a lot of anger at the OM...to the point of almost painting his W as unwilling participant in her own Affair. The anger at the OM is completely justified, but if he buries anger at his W over the Affair, he is doing a disservice to him, his spouse and ultimately his marriage.
I know DB says that you shouldn't show your W anger. But it doesn't, I believe, say you shouldn't have it. If you are truly working on the marriage, you have to work on everything warts and all.
Again, I stress. Being angry for your wife's actions doesn't mean acting out of control. There are effective ways to bring it up without losing control. It doesn't mean you don't love your wife,It doesn't mean you don't respect her, it doesn't mean you don't want to work on the marriage. In fact, marriage studies have shown how often a couple fights has little bearing on their overall happiness with the marriage.
I have 2 kids, I love them unconditionally. Do I get mad at them, at times. Do they get mad at me? You bet. does it mean our relationship is broke? Heck no.
Now Denver and you could give 2 craps about what I'm saying. But I believe my marriage is where it is today because my W and I have much better communication and honesty.
I'm sure we both appreciate you sharing your wisdom. But every sitch is different. I totally agree that better communication is the key to a better relationship. To me, it's not worth it to talk about a PA when there are much bigger issues to deal with (to me, my behavior/actions that lead to this point and how I am changing). There is a time and place to discuss everything. For Denver, I can't tell you when that time is. For me, it would be AFTER reconcilliation (I need a spell checker!).
Harrier, I think you are right to some degree that Anger is there about the situation. Having an A is no way to solve problems but there is some understanding on how W got there for many of thess LBS.
I am angry at both participants. In my sitch, I have hard evidence that OM tried this on 3 other ladies in our small town but My W chooses to ignore these. Thats only part of the issue, the thing I have to deal with more is that My wife's heart did not belong to me anymore when she had and is having this affair , now realtionship. She was done with me in her heart and it was now available for someone else.
That is the most important issue to deal with. If somehow, she feels that this was a mistake down the road, only then can we solve our m problems and try again. I have to show her I am the better option, which I am.
But if she doesnt "feel it" and despite her head knowing what is the right choice, her heart still does not belong to me and is not available at this point in time. Will it ever? IDK, All I can do is work on myself, Forgive the affair if she comes back and get on with the very difficult part of PIECING. Last time, I let her come back way to easy and as a result, she never really did come back.
I will not make that mistake again, one way or another.
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BITS M-46 W-42 M-16y T-19 y s10 s15 BombDec.19/09 Sep-F16/10 Sep Papers signed by W- June 30/10 Recon July 5/10 PA foundOut- Oct 30/10 Mental HospNov/10 moved out Nov/10 Leg Sep Mar 15/11
If your wife is saying (and you sound like you're agreeing with) "I'm sorry, I just wasn't 'feeling it' for you anymore, emotionally, so it's not really cheating," then I'm not buying.
For me, it would be AFTER reconciliation (I need a spell checker!).
Actually, I was specifically talking about after/during reconciliation. To me reconciliation, is a process not a single event and in many ways you never stop the reconciliation process.
It's funny people always complain about once people have success stories they never stick around. But here I am trying to offer a perspective and it gets slapped down with "every situation is different." Really?
You just kinda convinced me I was wrong to offer my 2 cents.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
I'm amazed that folks want to tear apart a situation that is working and is becoming very successful.
DB techniques that bring you to this point never go out the window. You do add to them, but you keep them in your repertoire.
Harrier is right in that no reconciliation, no marriage, is ever a 'done' deal. It's a living/breathing thing that needs constant nourishment. We need SKILLS to keep the marriage alive.
Denver is doing a great job at building and using his skills in his marriage and it appears his wife is gaining some skills as well. It's not a 'done' deal, but it's a relationship going in a loving direction.
Denver, I agree with your assessment of strength as well.
