"Buddhists believe that people should endeavor to approach their lives with a beginner's mind because in a beginner's mind there are many possibilities. While in an expert's mind, there are but few."
"There are two primary areas in which people's 'expertise' clouds their thinking when they're having relationship problems. The first inovles dearly held fallacies about love and marriage. The second has more to do with faulty misconceptions abouthow to bring about a change in their relationships."
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"Conflict and anger are signs that your relationship is failing"
What are your thoughts/feelings about this? What has your partner expressed to you?
What is conflict like for you--intense and stressful? What are the signs in your body? Do you cry or do you get sick or are your muscles tight? What is it like for your partner?
What are your beliefs about conflict's impact on your marriage?
What are your beliefs about how conflict should be resolved?
How do YOUR beliefs differ from your partner's beliefs?
How are each of your beliefs getting in the way of OR helping your marriage (if this is a strength of yours)?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"In healthy relationships major disagreements get resolved over time."
What have been the major disagreements between you and your spouse?
What have been your hopes about the resolution of this disagreement?
What have you 'heard' about your spouse's opinion on this issue?
What do you think is underlying your spouse's opinion on this issue?
What do you think your spouse hopes you will understand about him/her on this issue?
What are your feelings about the following statement:
"Research tells us that approximately 60 percent of what couples argue about is unresolveable"
Does the following surprise you:
"If you eavesdrop on couples' arguments as newlyweds and then again after they've been married for 25 years or more, you might be surprised to find that much of the content is the same. However, the way in which people discuss these heated issues does change over time. We tend to mellow a bit, which makes a huge differenc ein how our partners react to us and vice versa."
If you've been in the relationship for a long time (8+ years)...are you mellowing? What about 25+ years...are you mellowing?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
My partner and I are definitely mellowing. That's exciting because we're 'hotter' too. We've relaxed and gotten more joyful. Weird, because our issues haven't changed. It's not that we don't care about our issues. The two of us just matter more. When we're irritated, well, we're irritated, but it isn't a deal-breaker.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"In healthy marriages, spouses have the same definition of what it means to be loving"
What do you really want from your partner? If you're upset--what do you want your partner to do? to say? If you're excited--what do you want from your spouse?
What is a loving expression to your spouse?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"Having a good marriage doesn't depend on having a shared definition of love. It involves undersatnding your partner's definition and showing your love based on THAT definition, not yours. Not enough people engage in real giving. Instead, we give to others that which we would like to receive."
My guy is not a DBer. He avoids a R talk like the Bears avoid the Packers. Just let me say GO BEARS and wait TIL NEXT YEAR. He knows about DB and the board and yadayada, and he is fine with this being MY thing, etc. And yet he is so much better at REAL GIVING than I am.
REAL GIVING is Michele's signature and best technique. GO MICHELE. I wish she would write a new book just on this technique.
REAL GIVING IS LOVE. And anyone who gets it has the best chance of winning their partner.
Emmett Fox said:
"If you could only love enough, you could be the most powerful person in the world."
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
So, true. Thinking about the loving w/out getting anything back or expecting it. Wake up call right here! I see now, that I had the expectations of how I would love my H and he would do all these things in return.
I didnt see that he was showing it in return but, in a different way, his way.
Arguing only came about around the same topic as mention before..come home....
But, I realize that it doesent matter who is right or wrong on some random topic to argue. Who cares! We are two different people who experience things in a different way.
I wanted my H to say he loved me, but by coming home. That showed me that he really loved me because he was willing to put his fears and etc. aside to take a chance on us. So, when that never happened, but he came over week after week. I felt rejected everytime and unloved.
Make sense?
Me: 40 H: 39 M: 17 yrs - Together 18 1/2yrs No kids Seperated: May 18, 2006 EA/Poss PA with OW for 6 months prior to leaving. 2nd Bomb dropped: Dec. 23, 2010
So, true. Thinking about the loving w/out getting anything back or expecting it. Wake up call right here! I see now, that I had the expectations of how I would love my H and he would do all these things in return.
I didnt see that he was showing it in return but, in a different way, his way.
Yes. And in his way of showing you love, you can begin to detect what love really means to him.
What was he doing to show you love?
Quote:
I wanted my H to say he loved me, but by coming home. That showed me that he really loved me because he was willing to put his fears and etc. aside to take a chance on us. So, when that never happened, but he came over week after week. I felt rejected everytime and unloved.
Your expectation was a bit too high. He probably needs to feel a certain way before deciding to come home. When you were living together, what made you feel the most loved?
Quote:
But, I realize that it doesent matter who is right or wrong on some random topic to argue. Who cares! We are two different people who experience things in a different way.
Exactly. And now you can put that realization to practice.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"There is no magic or mystery here. What you decide to do on a daily basis will determine how much love you and your partner feel for each other. You both decide whether you're going to spend time together regularly or do your own thing, forgive each other or hold grudges, accept each others weaknesses or point finger of blame, apoligze when in error or smugly stand your ground, be generous and giving or put your own needs first."
Do you find your feelings vascillating greatly? What are you committed to?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
What are your thoughts and feelings about this statement?
"Most people survive infidelity and can, in fact, make their marriage stronger once they work through the issues infidelity has brought into their lives."
If you are in the situation where you or your spouse has had an affair or is having an affair, what are your thoughts about this statement. What were your biases before you were in this situation?
What are the biases of the people closest to you and your spouse?
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
"Most people are happier in their second marriages because they've learned from their mistakes"
Have you heard this before?
Michele states... "...60 percent of second marriages end in divorce..." and "...one of the reasons there are more divorces in second marriages is that people enter their second marriages with the bad relationship habits they learned the first time around."
Are you happy in your work? Do you feel fulfilled? Are you happy with yourself physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally?
How does this affect how you feel in your relationship? How do you think the same things are affecting your partner's feelings and expectations in your relationship?
Michele's thoughts on pages 57 and 58 are really worth reading over again from time to time and applying to your life and relationship.
sg Love is PATIENT, love is KIND, LOVE never fails / DB since 2001
What happens if you WAS believes these illusions. One in particular that sticks out to me is that we cannot be happy because we are so different. Another one is that love is not a decision but something you feel or don't feel. I mean he really is committed to his feelings about these things. I don't try to change those feelings anymore. But it is certainly frustrating. I asked him one day months ago after telling him some of the stuff I learned if he thought he was smarter than the experts. He said that most of the time, yes, he thinks he's smarter. Not really much I could do with that, so I left it alone.
H thinks that it's a feeling not a choice to love. Of course, I don't believe that at all. He also thinks/feels strongly that he did try while we have been seperated. Though, he never came home.
I know, some folks who got it right for the 2nd Marraige. But, it seems I know more who are Divorced after 2x's. So, I agree w/Michelle.
Of course, what do you do when H is making himself believe all his excuses????
Me: 40 H: 39 M: 17 yrs - Together 18 1/2yrs No kids Seperated: May 18, 2006 EA/Poss PA with OW for 6 months prior to leaving. 2nd Bomb dropped: Dec. 23, 2010
So, now that H is gone....how do I put to practice what I now know??? He now feels strongly that he has to let me go. Because, he cant come home and its not fair to hurt me. When he comes to get the Dog on Thursday. If he did bring up R. What would I say....
But, alas...I think he will get Dog and just go. I'm learning all these things...how will he ever know SG?
Me: 40 H: 39 M: 17 yrs - Together 18 1/2yrs No kids Seperated: May 18, 2006 EA/Poss PA with OW for 6 months prior to leaving. 2nd Bomb dropped: Dec. 23, 2010
I think much of this is interesting. I like the idea of the "beginner's mind."
For me the issue of conflict is one that I think about. I never had the illusion that there wouldn't be conflict once I got married. In fact, I'd be extremely worried if there were no conflict.
Conflict happens in all relationships - spouse, kids, parents, friends, bosses. My take has always been what do the conflict teach us about the other person and our selves.
One thing conflict has taught me is that I don't hold grudges. I can have a nasty fight with say my sister and then talk to her a week later like nothing happened. I believe that conflict can offer a necessary valve for stress.
However, that's not to say all conflict is equal. Some can be harmful. I was reading "Seven principles for making marriages work" by John Gottman. he has done observational studies on married couples to come up with this 7 principles.
This book has taught me to examine the way conflict occurs. How you approach it and how the other person approaches it. Now obviously, I can't put the whole book here, but it boils down to this. All conflicts are either resolvable or perpetual. You have to acknowledge that some conflicts can not be solved. The idea is too look at the root of the conflict for understanding not to get the person to change. Solvable conflict can also be an issue, but you have to learn how to address them in a productive manner.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
The other issue I have devoted a lot of thinking to is the oft cited idea that many, many people have heard from their spouse "I love you, but I am not in love with you." This was prior to my days on her and luckily I didn't start thinking about it because my W said it to me. She has never said that to me.
What got me thinking about a year ago I started to wonder if I was still "in love" with my W. I thought about it often. I mean I knew I loved her. We had a deep connection for nearly 20 years. She was everything I wanted in a wife, but was I "in love" with her and what did it really mean to be "in love." I was attracted to her physically, she made me laugh like no on else, I enjoyed spending time with her, we had a similar outlook on life, she was truly my best friend. But what did those things mean with respect to being "in love"?
My conclusion may surprise some. I decided that it didn't matter. I loved my wife and that was all I needed to feel.
I think the idea of being "in love" is some artificial distinction that usually on comes up when someone wants to soften the blow of a breakup. what does in mean? sexual attraction? well that's different. Butterflies in the stomach feeling? We know that doesn't last.
I mean when you are dating do you think about telling your SO. "Hey, I'm in love with you?" No, you say "I love you."
So i cringe when I hear the ILYBINILWY. If my W ever said that to me I'd say "what does that even mean?" I think it also reflect a notion that love is not a choice.
Patience is bitter, but its fruit is sweet. --Jean Jacques Rousseau.
Harrier you have a point. I think of "in love" and I think: lust/addiction that burns out.
BITS Me-51, WAS-52 Kids 2 M-26yrs, H.left 2009, 2 more Bomb drops, Reconnection spring 2013 Change is inevitable, personal growth is a choice. Love is a action and choice you make, every day.
