2 years later it's still not getting easier

[Nvrgivup]

Oh I get it, before the the "official" OM came into the picture, there were some times that my XW spent a little time with us. And I certainly know the feeling of being around her and seeing no love. Guarded and even a little deceptive. It is incredibly hard to feel a particular way about a person who not only doesn't feel the same way but seems to go out of her way sometimes to go overboard the other way? We lived "separated" in the same house for 2 years! Believe me I know what its like to be around that kind of situation.
I have also felt the need to meet somebody else. And have gone on a few dates. But honestly I'm not sure if I'm ready, and trying to force myself may not be the right way to go. And I do worry that the kids would have a tough time with it. They watched their mom for the last few years going out all the time, and now with a boyfriend I've seen them struggle with accepting that. Even with him around, by middle son (15) asked me the other day if I would move back into the house (we, actually she, has an empty suite in the basement) so that we could be more like a family again. I think because I remained dedicated to reconciliation for so long, and so obviously, and have basically given all my energy to the boys for so long now, that they have a certain trust and expectation that I will continue this way... it has me torn? I worry that if I got serious about somebody else I'd be betraying the trust they have in me? Its yet another hard set of decisions to make. All I know for sure is that my boys have to come first, and I'll need to figure a way to meet my own needs and balance that. It helps knowing that I'm not the only one struggling with it.

[whitneypinch]

I too am dedicated to my kids 100%.

I have been on a few dates and quit frankly I would rather go out with my kids. They are not jaded and happy to go anywhere as long as we are together. They don't care how fancy a place it is. I do everything with my kids. It's so nice to be with someone genuinely excited to be there.

Ya, I have been out with my family twice in the last 2 weeks. When I drop my kids off my XW gives me a big hug now.
I have NO idea why we do all this stuff together.

I would like to hear from someone that had a WAW that stated to hang around with that lead to reconnecting. I would like to hear about the stages they went through.

I don't believe my wife is coming "towards me" but it does seem a bit odd.

[Nvrgivup]

I've dealt with many "odd" occurrences (I think I know exactly what you mean), and unfortunately I think its good thing that you don't believe she's coming towards you. Not that I have any idea whether she is or isn't, or if you should or shouldn't want that, I just know that for me I hoped so much that my XW might be, that I would lose track of what was more likely going on (which of course was nothing) and the expectations etc, would have me feeling like hell later. Letting go is this long and arduous process, and I know i'm not there totally yet. I sometimes have to remind myself that a text or something that "looks" a certain way is about me and how my feelings may project onto her actions? ie I want her back so I can make a text look like she wants to? But I've realized that if she did, or ever does, that it will likely be more obvious? and I can't hold my breath any longer for it.
I took my boys to see the new Harry Potter movie tonight, the movie was great, but just being with my boys made it so much better, we talked at great length about it on the way home. I hadn't been that happy in a while. Definitely better than any date.

[whitneypinch]

Well.... I think I am done.

As you all know I have been out with my XW a bunch of times with our kids.
Each time I do it I want more (expectations).
I had not heard from my XW since Thursday, which is not the norm.
I was really struggling with having not seen my kids in days so I stopped by their school to say hi. I walked away broken hearted. This is so wrong that I have to go to my kids school to visit them. I should see them everyday.

Anyway, I received an email last night from my XW that my 7 year old daughter had punched my 6 year old son in the eye (gave he a black eye). We have recently started to have problems with my daughter at school as well. Probably due to our divorce, no doubt.

Anyway, I wrote a somewhat positive note to my XW about dealing with my daughter as well as some feeling I have been having.
My XW wrote back how grateful she is of our relationship and always thinks of us as a family.
That was it for me !
I very calmly and rationally explained that we would have to agree to disagree on this. I told her that we are two people living independent lives. Then I went on to describe what a real family is....blah blah blah.

The way I see it my XW comes and goes as she pleases now with no accountability to me or our family. She hangs out with me and our kids when it suits her. She contacts me when I have the kids to see how they are doing. We send each other photos of all our kids milestones etc.
ENOUGH, I desserve better !!!

My XW and I are the perfect example of a couple that should NOT be divorced.
The only problem is that my XW does not see it that way.

I think it's time for me to drop the rope.
It's also time for us to start acting like a divorced couple.
I think next time she contacts me when I have the kids I am going to calmly and firmly reply....."We are a family, if you want to be a part of this family then I welcome you to join us. If not, then can I ask you to please just focus on your own life"

[Nvrgivup]

Sorry WP was out of town for a week there. I totally get how you are feeling. Not seeing my kids is the hardest thing I've ever had to deal with, and especially for this reason. And as we've both said "expectations" make it even harder. I'm not totally sure what to tell you, but the idea of backing off and becoming a little more independent from her seems like it may be the right idea? I mean if you look at it from a DBing sense, you could call it a 180, or going dark, or even an LRT? I started to realize (and believe me I didn't want to) that it was my effort in trying to keep my family together that actually drove it further apart. I see it this way now, by putting in all this effort, and trying to be somewhat benevolent, I was just empowering her to continue her behavior. She could get away with anything because she knew I was there to pick up the pieces. My kids have and are struggling in school, and very obviously because of the divorce. My kids are older so the problems are a little different than yours, and probably more serious at this point. My oldest (17) dropped out last year, my 15 yr old does well on his week with me, but skips classes (or whole weeks) when he as at XW house on her week. I've tried talking to her, forming a co-parenting plan, but she is in her own world where SHE is her only priority, and after repeated failure to get on the same page, I finally just went to the schools, met with teachers and formulated a plan where my sons HW assignments etc, were rescheduled to work on my weeks, in other words we kinda cut her out of the picture.. The kicker is that she hasnt even noticed!
You and I know the divorce is wreaking havoc with our families, we both know and try our best to "hold it together" and our XW's haven't got a frickin clue and aren't going to to until some of the crap they've stepped in starts to stink a little? Right now they don't WANT to notice. I don't know if this is going to work for me yet, I don't know if it is the right advice for you. All I know is that what I've tried so far hasn't and isn't working, and it is my kids that suffer most for it. I needed to find a way to do what was best for them, without her help or even her input. And though its only been a short time, I am seeing some benefit already. And to be honest it has freed me a little too, I worry less about what she thinks, or how I can get her involved? And without that I am finding that I am feeling better. Time for myself has become important to me, not worrying that my 15 yr old is skipping all week with her, because I have a plan to help him when he's with me. I AM feeling empowered myself now, it is making a difference!

[whitneypinch]

Hi there !

Thanks again for the reply.
It's funny. You and I seem to be on a similar path and similar timing.

Even though it's only been about a month I have started to initiate contact with her less and less. To tell you the truth it does make life much easier.
About the same time she has opened-up us all getting together more and more. In fact we have all done something together now each week for the last 4.

Something has come up that she wanted to do with the kids over Christmas during my time with them. I took the high road and told her that she can do the activity with them on her own. In turn she suggested that I join them.
At this point I kind of pushed back and said it was not out of the question but that I was concerned about the kid's (and mine) expectations after spending so much time together. I offered her the opportunity to speak her mind about it, to see how she feels.
Guess what.......... no response.

So I think I will pull back a bit.
To tell you the truth I am not missing her as much lately.

I am sorry to hear that your children are having such a tough time. Sadly it's the kids that suffer the most. Maybe there is someone professional that could help them out through these challenging times.

The more we focus on ourselves and our children the less our Xs effect us.

[Nvrgivup]

Well pulling back is the right thing I think, I mean could it make things worse? probably not. I think you are doing the right things, and really even if they don't seem like much, her asking to do stuff IS a really positive step! As long as you keep those expectations in check, take it as it is, and not what you want it to be, I think she'll ask for more? Seems like she is kind of already? I wish you the best my friend, Xmas with your family is fantastic!
Ya my kids have had a really hard time, and of course that effects how I feel about her and us. She couldn't have done this at worse time as far as their ages go. Younger kids have a rough time with all the changes, but they do adapt (even if its not a good thing) where my kids understood what it meant when she came home drunk at 3 am night after night, they heard her on the phone with other men, and realize what she was doing. It had a huge effect on their trust in her and respect for her... hence my 15 yr old won't go to school at her place because he doesn't respect her. Thats why it was important for me to make arrangements. He sure doesn't like the extra homework at my place but he DOES respect that I'm doing what sbest to help him succeed, and he appreciates the effort i think

[whitneypinch]

Ahhh, I am so sorry to hear that is what you and your kids had to witness. It must have been heartbreaking.

I was lucky as all I saw was emotional affairs. I don't know if physical affairs occured but they may have.

All you can do is your beat with your kids. At least older kids can kind of understand it. It does not make it ok though.

I am sure we all have not heard the last of this all.
I suspect there will be more things come up sooner than later with my X.

[whitneypinch]

Update.
I just had 9 of the most fantastic days alone with my kids. I am very lucky in that I get my kids on Christmas forever. My XW is Jewish.
We did so many fun things, dealt with us all being sick, had a great Christmas etc.

Over the month leading up to Christmas I had a lot of contact with XW. It's mostly about the kids but occasionally about other things. My XW and I get along fantastically. I started to get expectations every-time I spoke to her. I just can't seem to handle not having expectations. I just can't.

I start to have my phone with me everywhere hoping she will call etc. When she does not I get upset etc. Expectations are a biatch.

My XW now has our kids and is in Florida for a week long vacation with her family. We all used to do this every year.

I just got to the breaking point. I emailed my XW saying I just could no longer go along with these cute little emails back and forth when we have a family in ruin. I told her if she wanted to deal with our family then fine, if not I was no longer going to be a part of these cute little emails.
It's just too painful to get email photos from her of my kids on their Florida trip.
It's just too painful to see that and not be there.

I know this is probably not the best approach but for me it's easier to get through my day not expecting contact from her.

When I dropped my kids off yesterday something happened for the first time. My 7 year old daughter started crying when I was to leave. I lost it too and had tears.
I just hate to see my kids in pain. I am glad my XW saw that though.
Honestly my XW thinks this situation is great. She says she is so happy about our relationship..blah blah blah

So, we will see how this week goes while my kids are away. I am sure my kids will phone me a bunch of times.
BTW they never phone my XW when they are with me.

[MeMyselfandI]

Wow Whitney, I have just read your thread and I don't know how you do it. My STBXH has stated from the beginning of this mess that we have a chance to make this new stage in our lives better than ever and show them what a "real family looks like".

My hat off to you for being able to spend as much time as you can as a family as I have not been able to. I would like to but I think in my situation it would confuse/hurt our daughter way too much.

I always hoped that maybe one day we could get to where you are but it doesn't seem to be any easier than where I am in turning down invitations.

Happy Holidays to you and all the best for a week filled with peace and happy memories of your Christmas with your children.