Mine said "why should I go for counselling with you, it'll just show that I'm to blame and have a lot of problems. I already know that so why should I go?" Umm, where do you go with that kind of thinking!
It's good to have a plan for your life and he seems all set! None of that anxiety about where am I going from here, I'll just hate BBJ the rest of my life for...for...for what? What's he got to be so bitter about? I know we've all played our parts in the end of our marriages but what could you have done to inpsire such anger, BBJ? Just askin', don't feel you have to answer if you don't want to.
I agree both parties have to admit fault in the demise of the M. When someone doesn't, that is no good. I have apologized to my H for the crap things I did to him. I think it's healthy and necessary. He once told me I made him file for D and I made him throw my belongingis out on our front lawn. I don't feel he MADE me do anything I did. I own it.
Question for everyone on here: did you suggest MC to your spouses and if so, did they accept?
My xw hasn't admitted anything, and I don't really expect her to. I think her point of view, as much as it has been expressed, is that it was a good run, and it ran out. And maybe there is something to that, though I think it could have kept going if both of us wanted it to.
I don't need to hear her apologize. In fact, it might make it harder to move forward, wondering if there was something more I could have done.
Sol, yes I suggested MC. We had actually done it about 10 years before, with no real positive impact. Then in 96 (I think) we went to Retrouvaille, but she wasn't interested in doing the followup, which made it ineffective. At the end, I said tell me when you can go, and I'll arrange it. Somehow, she never could. At that point, I wasn't really interested in pushing it.
Sol--We did MC after the first one night stand in Idaho. But all he wanted to talk about at counseling was whether he should quit his job and we should move back to St. Louis with his old company, which we did.
Then after affair #1, we did about 4 sessions of MC. He basically said, "It's over lets move on" and in fact was lying to me and to the MC because he was still cheating then. And a few weeks later when I gave the ultimatum that Nathan and I were moving home to Iowa and leaving him in Wichita, he did a 180, cut off contact, full transparency, everything you could want on that end. Except he refused to go to MC saying he 'didn't know why he did it' so there was nothing to talk about. I was so glad he ended the A that I let it go....shame on me.
Finally after affair #2 we were doing MC in Kansas City but again he was still in contact w/ow the whole time and lying about it, so it was ineffective. When he finally got serious and stopped the A he was jaded that counseling "didn't work, it never helped us before". Um, nope, not if you lie to me, yourself, and the counselor!!! He did agree to Retro, so we went and that should have told me everything. There is a pivotal exercise at the end where you write your spouse a letter tellng them how you see the 'real them' and if you can accept them and love them as they are.
Dan cried bc mine was so spot-on of him, his demons, resentments, etc. And I said I could accept him. Then he read his letter to me. He had me pretty close to right, but then said he 'didn't know' if he could accept me, didn't know 'how' to accept me... We did all the follow ups until the final one which was supposed to be recommitting to the marriage. He said he could not do it.
1)He says he made the choice NOT to go to grad school or vet school after college bc he had asked me to marry him and he felt a need to have a job to provide for me. Keep in mind, he never told me this. I would have gladly lived in cheap married student housing and eaten ramens and cereal for him to get what he wanted. But he lied and told me he tanked the GRE and could not get in to grad school.
Only after affair #2 in 2007 did he open the floodgates. He told me he aced the GRE and could have gone to grad school but didn't BECAUSE OF ME. His whole life would have been different if he had not married me. Now he had spent 10 years at a job he despised (meat business) so "I could have my dream staying home with the kids." And truth be told when he came home I would vent about my day (Oh boy nathan pooped all over the living room, Sydney wouldn't nap so I am tired, etc etc). I honestly was sharing, not complaining, in my mind. But through his filter he gave up his dream career to give me mine and all I did was b!tch.
2) After his grandma died in Dec 2006, his parents had to sell a part of the family farm to give their siblings their share of the inheritance. I had known since our dating years that dan wanted more than anything to move home and live in a particular section of the farm...the section his parents were selling.
He wanted to buy it. At the time I had no job at home with the kids, we had a mortgage and a second mortgage/equity loan. Plus, loans for a new pickup for Dan and two livestock trailers.
I asked him how we could afford a loan for the farm section up home. I wanted to be a team and be in on the planning. He took it as me not trusting him. He said we could buy it and then rent it out...I said I was not sure we could qualify on the possibility that we could rent it.
I suggested we look for jobs back home and sell our house/land, move up there and live in his childhood home on the farm section. He was adamant that we could not do that, he could not quit his job and would not find a job in Omaha area. I said lets sit down and write out how we are going to make this work, then. He got pissed and said never mind if I didn't just trust him, forget it. And he started his affair and never really looked back.
He swears up and down that I told him we could not buy the farm, knowing it was all he ever dreamed of. I tried to point out after the fact that he got a job in the Omaha area within two weeks of deciding to move once he had the A and was going to leave me. So, it could have been done...
Anyway THAT is why he will never forgive me. Because he gave up everything to give me my dream and I b!tched, and then when he had the chance at his dream I said NO. (Not to mention, I said NO to cheating on me and he didn't follow my orders then, did he?)
I told him a while back we could make an offer on the land. The girl who bought it is 39, unmarried, family friend since birth. Her parents are best friends with Dan's parents. I told him she liked the setting but if we offered her an extra $50k for the place she could buy a different little house in the country, she had no emotional attachment.
He says, no, she would not sell, I just know it, but he never even tried asking her...
(((((BobbiJo))))) Every time I read about your sitch like that, I am amazed at how many times you were willing to try. He had so many chances. It makes it so obvious that no matter what he says, it was never about you.
One more thing...I bought the book Boundaries in Marriage and read in during June 2009. I was amazed, saw where I had fallen short on my end, etc. Life Changing Book for me.
I wrote Dan a letter admitting my fault, owning my part in our problems. I was sincerely sorry for my contribution to our mess. He read it, said that I "said all the right things" but how could he know if I meant it.
What will never make sense is that I was willing to forgive him for the affairs and lies and betrayals, even before he fully confessed and asked for forgiveness. And yet conversely I opened my heart up completely to him and apologized and he refuses to forgive. Well, that means he will have a miserable life, but I don't have to....
He did agree to Retro, so we went and that should have told me everything. There is a pivotal exercise at the end where you write your spouse a letter tellng them how you see the 'real them' and if you can accept them and love them as they are. 
We did all the follow ups until the final one which was supposed to be recommitting to the marriage. He said he could not do it.