Not sure where to start or end? WAW? #4

[CityGirl]

I think if you really go back and read some of your older posts you will have a light bulb moment. You have said many, many times you *need* somebody to tell you that you look good and you *need* somebody to dote on you. It's fine to want those things within reason but needing those things? You don't. You need to be able to fill up those holes on your own. And at this time you really can't seem to. Why?

I am going to guess the hospital was fully staffed and well equipped to deal with your medical emergency as well as a patient who had no immediate family support. Yet you called and called around because you *needed* somebody there. You had lots of people there... doctors, nurses and staff. Having been hospitalized several times I understand wanting somebody around but without you, you would have been fine.

Your W knows what you *need* so she gives it to you in dribs and drabs. I get it... you want to feel like the big strong H who can take care of things for his W. I think most men want to feel that way but right now its not the dynamic the two of you share.

As long as your W knows you *need* things like you do she will be able to keep you hooked. She may be acting more pleasant and polite (ex: thanking you) but that's not really much to write home about IMO. It's basic human decency to say thank you when somebody does something for you.

It just seems some of the things you do that you feel are a big deal really are nothing. But they feel huge to you because you *need* them to. Giving a woman and child a coat when it's cold is not a big deal at all. Having the woman thank you is not a big deal. But as you relayed the story it seemed to hold weight with you.

You do not *need* anybody to take care of you, compliment you or any of the other things you have posted. You may want it but you don't need it. And as long as you keep telling yourself you *do* need those things (instead of simply wanting them) you will keep attracting people who also have *needs* and not *wants*. Or, as you are seeing now with your W you will keep attracting people that know what your *needs* are and will use them to her full advantage.

It seems to me all your W has offered you is a list of administrative tasks to complete (faxing, calling dr) or sent you on an errand to fix her car (so you would pay for it). But you felt needed so you did them. And that is fine if you are fine with it.

Everybody needs people. I am not suggesting otherwise. But the level of what we need really decides how healthy we are to be in a long term R.

In 15 or 20 years would you want your son thinking he *needs* to have somebody tell him he looks good or *needs* to have somebody dote on him? I doubt it. I bet you would want him to be able to meet his own needs first before he invited somebody else to SHARE his life with.

You proclaim to be very emotionally and I do think if you start using logic to think and guide you things might change. It feels emotionally good to be with OW but it's not logical. It feels emotionally good to be *needed* by your W but it's not logical given the situation.

If you were detached from your W the idea of her asking you to do things for her would not mean a thing to you. It just seems you are putting an awful lot of stock in a few requests.

[hurtinhartford]

Wow CityGirl you hit it right out of the park!!!

[gr8 day 2B alive]

Wow CityGirl you hit it right out of the park!!!

Glad to see you back CG

gr8

[konfuseeed]

Yup.

[Piano]

It's good to know that you can do things on your own, and not just survive but thrive. It's called growing up and being self reliant.
I'm not being a meany John, it's just something I've had to learn through my sitch as well..and I'm nearly 10 years your senior, lol!

[john28]

CityGirl, thanks. I don't deny that any of what you said is true. I do feel like I *need* someone, I won't deny that. I guess I've always been like that. It makes me feel good when I'm doted on, told great things to, loved and cherished.

I reflected a little tonight about this. I've done the same thing before in my life. About 11 years ago I was in a relationship that lasted 3 years (until 2002). Two of those years were long distance and I was in college and she was back home. I cheated on her with multiple people for the last two years of our relationship while away at college. And I loved her - I really did, but I *needed* someone THERE to tell me I was attractive to feel wanted, etc. She never found out about the cheating that I did even to this day - but she broke up with me for other reasons, namely she found another guy in the same town and she was only 18 at the time and wanted to live a full life.

So we broke up and I was devastated. Why, with all my cheating was I so devastated? I reflect now and see that it was because I was rejected and unwanted - because I had the feeling of *needing* her. I was a mess for about two years after that - jumping from one girl to the next, involved in a couple 4-6 month relationships as well. I probably dated 25 women in the two years following that breakup.

Then something happened in the summer of 2004. I found myself spiritually and emotionally and really LOVED myself. I really truly found out who I was and I was HAPPY with MYSELF. For the first time ever I was GAL without another woman and found out who I was and I loved that. I was content, happy, and good. I dated a girl that summer and fell deeply in love with her after finding myself. She broke up with me and I was just FINE. It hurt, but I was good and fine because I loved myself.

Then shortly after, I met my W in the fall of 2004 and it was history from there.

History has repeated itself for me again.

[CityGirl]

There is nothing wrong with feeling pleased when you get a compliment. We ALL like getting compliments. But your need is very, very deep to be wanted and you should figure out why. Until you do, you will keep cycling through these patterns and you never will have a stable R with yourself or anybody else in an intimate sense.

It is way too much work to be with somebody so needy. As a woman I can say it's disgusting and a turn off. If any woman tells you otherwise they are messed up too. It's exactly why I question what your OW is really all about. No 26 year old in their right mind would go near a man that is not legally separated or divorced, in mediation with their W, has a young kid and is financially struggling as you say you are. It's just not normal behavior for a young woman who claims she has her whole life in order. No normal or well adjusted woman would be okay with you telling her that your W is still in the picture and you aren't sure where things are going. Something is very wrong with this picture. What is it? If I had to guess it probably has lots to do with the fact she has reached a high position in her career at a young age. There is little else for her to obtain other than a R. Because she may feel like she *needs* a R she is okay with (A) your neediness (which can be confused for desire and somebody with long term potential) or (B) settling for less than what she deserves. Who knows but the thought has crossed my mind when reading about her.

My guess is she is needy too. And when you put two needy people together you are create a bond of codependency that will never be broken and eventually the R will cycle to a very bad place. Add in the fact you still have a W waltzing around in the background and you are looking at a red hot mess waiting to happen.

How can you fall *deeply* in love with somebody over the course of ONE summer which is roughly 8 weeks? You can feel deep in lust or like but what you were feeling was all emotional and not real deep love. That level of love takes years to develop. But your emotions guide so many of your thoughts and feelings and actions I am not sure you are able to tell the difference.

Your self esteem must be low and that is understandable given the fact your W had an affair. But as you said this has been an ongoing problem for you long before your W came along. Maybe if you figure out why then things can change if you work at them.

But really think about how you react to any sort of attention from anybody. Remember the guy at the bank who gave you his card? You came here and reported it like you were king... just lapping up the attention.

All I am saying is if you want to try and rebuild your marriage you have to start off by not *needing* it. It doesn't even sound like you really want it all that much or at the very least you are very confused about it. One day you are over it and the next day you are trying to be better. And I bet that is a confusing place to be.

If you like the idea of being needed why not direct your energies to something more positive. Go volunteer - you will be needed and appreciated beyond belief and you will feel good.

You say you are attractive, confident and so on but if you really felt that way you wouldn't need to hear it from somebody else. It's nice to hear it, I think we can all agree on that, but needing it at such a deep level is something different.

Only you have the power to break this cycle. It will be the only way to rebuild your M. But you really should also do it for you.

[john28]

I agree CG that I have to break this cycle of self-neediness. It's not good. There was a point in my life where that didn't exist - and I was content. It took me a long time to get there and somehow I've lost myself along the way.

You may be right about me wanting to make the small gestures my W makes a bigger deal than they really are because I *need* them to bigger than they really are. Or, maybe I'm just highly perceptive to changes in demeanor or actions. Either way, I probably do latch onto them more than I should with hope.

I still have hope for my M. The demeanor these past few weeks after my hospital stay have been noticeably different from my W. We interact better and seem to be actually not be at each other's throats about everything. I don't know if that is a direct result of my actions or not, but it looks like it is. I'm not going out of my way to do everything possible and smother and care for her, but I am thinking a few steps ahead and doing things that are decent as a person towards her.

It may be that she is just being nice and coordial and that's it. I don't know what she's thinking. I can only speak to her actions, which have been different than before now. Not much, but noticeable. I don't think she is "thawing" but she is testing the waters. What for, I don't know. I don't know her motivation, and frankly no one here can really know either.

As far as Professor Cat Lady, I'm not sure what I'm really doing there also. Part of me thinks it is an EA. Part of me thinks it is just me moving on. I just don't know how I feel anymore about all of this. Maybe part of me is indeed using her to fuel my own self-worth and post-bomb grief relief. I don't know if I am leading her on or not either. I don't know how I feel anymore.

[soleil]

No normal or well adjusted woman would be okay with you telling her that your W is still in the picture and you aren't sure where things are going.

I am going to agree with CG here. No woman in a "right" mind would want to be involved with anyone who says they are not sure of where the relationship they are presently in "is going."

[john28]

No normal or well adjusted woman would be okay with you telling her that your W is still in the picture and you aren't sure where things are going.

I am going to agree with CG here. No woman in a "right" mind would want to be involved with anyone who says they are not sure of where the relationship they are presently in "is going."

That's probably because I haven't told her that.