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A Message from Michele
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Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: PMA_Baby!] #2083908
09/28/10 08:09 PM
09/28/10 08:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
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futureunknown Offline OP
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futureunknown  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
Here's a recap of Friday night. Went out with W to the pub from our wedding day. We had a great time. On the way I showed her the video on my phone of my recent gig. She was thrilled, and said "H, this really is a big deal." I am in the most bizarre situation, with a MC for a WAW. She was talking about one of her clients, and how his (wayward) wife doesn't like how my wife is encouraging him (the betrayed husband) to establish boundaries. He's been acting like a real doormat. I guess the wife has cheated on the husband several times, with random dudes, like the gardener. My W said "She makes me look good by comparison!" Then she says "H, I know this is hard for you to believe, but you've really helped me in my work. The things you did, they made me face reality. I was so angry at you at you at the time, but I later realized you were doing the right things. When I see these other wives acting like I did, I encourage the husbands to call them on their sh*t, like you did with me."

Who would have ever thought that advice from this board would make it from a betrayed husband into the hands of his wayward marriage counselor wife, and then be given to her betrayed clients. WTF! This is a crazy world.

Anyway, we also went to another club to see a band, and closed that place. We were getting a little "familiar" with each other, and W said "This is confusing." I said "What do you mean?" She said "We shouldn't be doing this. We're working on finalizing our custody agreement." I nodded, but we kept right on doing what we were doing. Just light affection, nothing more.

After bringing her home we hung out at her place for a while. We talked until 4:30 in the morning. We were in good moods, at first, talking and joking, and watching TV. Finally, I said "How do you feel about us working on that custody agreement?" She said "I hate it." I said "How do feel about us getting divorced?" She said "I hate it." I said "Well?" She said "H, I know, but we have this toxic sh*t between us, and we can't get around it." I nodded and said "I know."

Then the dams blew open. She started trying to justify what she did. She said "You are sticking to the idea that I cheated on you." I said "W, you did cheat on me." She said "I know what I did was wrong, but technically, I didn't cheat on you." I said "Yeah, you did." She said "I admit I emotionally cheated on you. I shouldn't have started anything with OM until after we were separated, but I didn't feel like we were married any more." The tired old standard argument. I said "W, the way you behaved during our last year living together was a disgrace. You enjoyed whatever benefits you wanted from our marriage, while keeping me in the dark about what was really going on."

I was getting VERY angry at this point. She started rewriting history, leading to us arguing about it. She said "I told you I didn't have hope for us, we were sleeping in separate beds most of the time. You shouldn't have held onto hope." Then she started on the whole "OM had nothing to do with it" argument. She said "Even if OM was never in the picture, we'd be right here where we are." I said "Yeah, we probably would have separated, but without all the destruction." She looked down and said "I know." Then she said "I was suicidal. OM was keeping me from the edge. What I needed you couldn't give me." I was livid, and stood up and said "Ok, I'm done" and I started walking out. She said "Please don't go." I said "Why?" She pleaded "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please stay and talk." It was the first real remorse I ever saw in her. She looked sad and said "Why do you even want me anymore?"

I was taken back by that question. Her vulnerability defused my anger. I softened and said "That's a fair question." I started with some BS about how I know I failed her in some ways, and about how our M never got to where we wanted it to be, blah, blah, blah. Then I got a little emotional and said "Because I don't feel like I ever got to really know you, and I want to, before I decide what I want to do." She melted and put her arms around me, and said "Thank you. That was exactly what I needed to hear, and I didn't even know it." I said "Why do you want me?" She said "Because the man I fell in love with is still inside you." Then I said "There's another reason, one that's hilarious, and tragic. Out of all the married people I know, we have one of the best marriages." She smiled and said "I know! What's up with that? We have this thing between us. I've tried to push it away, but even when I'm so angry at you, it won't go away."

I said "W, I won't live like this anymore. This is it for me. Either we need to get our D finalized, or take a step toward each other. She said "How can we ever get past what happened?" Again, so bizarre my MC wife is asking me what we can do. I said "We need to do something drastic." She said "Like what?" I asked her if she ever heard of Retrouvaille. She hadn't. I don't get it. All the tools I've learned about here, and she knows about none of them. I described it to her. She was enthusiastic, and said she would be absolutely willing to do it. That was about it. We were exhausted, and our son had a baseball game starting in only four hours. We hugged goodbye. W looked at me and said "Do you ever wonder what it would be like being together again?" I could tell by the look on her face she was referring to sexually. I smiled and said "Not saying I haven't thought about it, but I don't know, it would be pretty weird."

The next day at our son's baseball game, I was acting as field umpire, and when W arrived, she walked around the field to where I was, and between batters handed me a drink. She said "I feel good about our talk last night. I looked into Retrouvaille. It's run by three couples and a priest. As long as the priest isn't really involved, I'm good to go." I said "Whatever we do, it should be something we both feel comfortable with." She looked relieved and replied "Absolutely!" The game ended up being decided on an controversial infield fly rule play. Both coaches were yelling at each other, at me, at the home plate ump. Parents were getting involved and yelling. Totally sucked. Ridiculous for nine year old little league. When it was over I walked over to W. She was sympathetic, and joked "I think we're getting a taste of what the next 10 years are going to be like."

The following day W sent me an e-mail that said she's scared. She's scared of trying, of not trying, of getting hurt again. She said she can't wait until November for Retrouvaille, that we need to do something very soon. She suggested that we go away for a couple days in the next couple weeks to get some extended time together, and if that goes well, then go to Retrouvaille a month later. I replied that was fine, and I suggested a place a couple hours away to go. She said ok.

So, am I pursuing, or leading?

Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: futureunknown] #2083922
09/28/10 08:20 PM
09/28/10 08:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 5,299
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Coach Offline
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Quote:
"H, I know this is hard for you to believe, but you've really helped me in my work. The things you did, they made me face reality. I was so angry at you at you at the time, but I later realized you were doing the right things. When I see these other wives acting like I did, I encourage the husbands to call them on their sh*t,


She even needed you to do it after she acknowledged it. (Testing)

Quote:
Then the dams blew open. She started trying to justify what she did. She said "You are sticking to the idea that I cheated on you." I said "W, you did cheat on me." She said "I know what I did was wrong, but technically, I didn't cheat on you." I said "Yeah, you did." She said "I admit I emotionally cheated on you. I shouldn't have started anything with OM until after we were separated, but I didn't feel like we were married any more." The tired old standard argument. I said "W, the way you behaved during our last year living together was a disgrace. You enjoyed whatever benefits you wanted from our marriage, while keeping me in the dark about what was really going on."

I was getting VERY angry at this point. She started rewriting history, leading to us arguing about it. She said "I told you I didn't have hope for us, we were sleeping in separate beds most of the time. You shouldn't have held onto hope." Then she started on the whole "OM had nothing to do with it" argument. She said "Even if OM was never in the picture, we'd be right here where we are." I said "Yeah, we probably would have separated, but without all the destruction." She looked down and said "I know." Then she said "I was suicidal. OM was keeping me from the edge. What I needed you couldn't give me." I was livid, and stood up and said "Ok, I'm done" and I started walking out. She said "Please don't go." I said "Why?" She pleaded "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please stay and talk." It was the first real remorse I ever saw in her. She looked sad and said "Why do you even want me anymore?"


Quote:
The following day W sent me an e-mail that said she's scared. She's scared of trying, of not trying, of getting hurt again.


She wants to know if you are scared.

Quote:
I was livid, and stood up and said "Ok, I'm done" and I started walking out. She said "Please don't go." I said "Why?" She pleaded "I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. Please stay and talk." It was the first real remorse I ever saw in her.


Look at the result you got. Do what works.



Yes, you are leading. Read her cues.


M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12
Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: Coach] #2084272
09/29/10 02:57 PM
09/29/10 02:57 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
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futureunknown Offline OP
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futureunknown  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
Unbelievable that she keeps testing me, even after she thanks me for holding her to the fire.

That was the first time in the history of our relationship that I got angry and she didn't get angry back, but rather showed remorse for bad behavior, and vulnerability. She's growing.

I replied to her e-mail that I'm scared too, and I am. In the past when I tried to put a strong confident face on our prospects, she would back away from me, because she could tell we were on very different pages.

As the days have gone on, I've found myself getting less and less enthusiastic about going away with her, or doing Retrouvaille. I am feeling good about my life. Do I really want to put myself through more h*ll? I was planning on calling her this morning to ask her to lunch so we can spend some time together to see how it feels. I didn't need to. She called me this morning, and said "The more time that goes by without seeing you, the farther I get from wanting to go away with you. Will you come out with me to a comedy club Friday night?" I think we're on the same page now.

Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: futureunknown] #2084278
09/29/10 03:10 PM
09/29/10 03:10 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,045
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v1olin Offline
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"do I really want to put myself through more hell?"

This is the same question that I ask myself whenever I sense my x-wife is reaching out.


Me 35
Wife 34
Two daughters 8 years and 3 years
Bomb 3/30/09
W filed 4/16/09
We met in'92 married in 2000
Divorce final
Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: v1olin] #2084288
09/29/10 03:31 PM
09/29/10 03:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
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futureunknown Offline OP
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futureunknown  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
Hi v1olin-

Is your XW still involved with her OM? It's when that fizzles that they really ramp up the reaching out.

Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: futureunknown] #2084379
09/29/10 05:26 PM
09/29/10 05:26 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,045
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v1olin Offline
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v1olin  Offline
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Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,045
The last I knew was that he moved to Europe with his family last august. They were still talking on the phone once in a while at that time. I don't think they talk much now considering her behaviour towards me. I have dated a few ladies, dumped a few ladies, have a few chasing me and I dont pay much attention to the ex w.


Me 35
Wife 34
Two daughters 8 years and 3 years
Bomb 3/30/09
W filed 4/16/09
We met in'92 married in 2000
Divorce final
Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: v1olin] #2084387
09/29/10 05:37 PM
09/29/10 05:37 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
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futureunknown Offline OP
Member
futureunknown  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
Excellent!

Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: futureunknown] #2084409
09/29/10 05:58 PM
09/29/10 05:58 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,045
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v1olin Offline
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Posts: 1,045
Lol! I do still love my ex but I figure if she wants me back she can chase ME for a change.


Me 35
Wife 34
Two daughters 8 years and 3 years
Bomb 3/30/09
W filed 4/16/09
We met in'92 married in 2000
Divorce final
Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: v1olin] #2084444
09/29/10 06:39 PM
09/29/10 06:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
F
futureunknown Offline OP
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futureunknown  Offline OP
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 996
v1olin-

Yeah, I know exactly what you mean. Some here may think I haven't let my W chase me enough, but they don't see her every couple days like I do. They don't hear her complimenting me, asking for my advice, trying to pry info from me on my single life, wearing the perfume she knows I like, etc, etc. She treats me with respect (MOSTly), and admiration. She knows I have an active social life, she sees that I don't take her calls right away, don't answer her texts right away, and I'm not at her beckon call. She HAS been chasing me, for well over a year now. Between the severe damage of her A, plus the problems we had in our M, it's a long road to reconciliation. Given our history, in some ways I'm glad for her A, because it has prevented us from going too fast, and allowed us to truly heal and grow before we got to where we are. From what I understand about your sitch, you've grown considerably through all this too.

If my W and I do end up together, I'm confident our M is going to be great, and if we can't get there, we'll get divorced and life will go on.

Re: new chapter with strange WAW [Re: futureunknown] #2084610
09/29/10 10:22 PM
09/29/10 10:22 PM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,045
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v1olin Offline
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v1olin  Offline
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Yeah, I have done a considerable amout of growing but it is her who has a loooong way to go in that department.


Me 35
Wife 34
Two daughters 8 years and 3 years
Bomb 3/30/09
W filed 4/16/09
We met in'92 married in 2000
Divorce final
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