Looking for advice, WAW

[Grocerykartman]

I think she's saying she could really make things ugly if you are jerk about it because she is scared too. She is probably in a state that feels like a holding pattern, she doesn't want to let you go or set YOU free, but she doesn't want to continue down the path of unhappiness that she feels. Furthermore, yes, she doesn't want a repeat of another ugly divorce, and is emboldening herself to not let someone do the underhanded thing the last guy did to her. You get it though. You are a much better person than that, and that's exactly the point...you don't have to be a jerk about it. I received advice from several people, and the consensus was, be a gentleman during this time. Don't be a pushover, but be a gentleman. I think this is much easier to do if you focus on the three major things, the kids, the kids, the kids. It is about the kids first and foremost. You need to have the heart to heart with her like you were talking about, but in the context of, "this isn't working for me, you, us, or the kids any longer." We're all miserable, and we can't keep going down this road. Everyone kept telling me, this kind of situation can be as bad as you want to make it, or as cooperative and cordial as you want to make it, assuming you both are mature enough to conducct yourselves well. I can tell by the way you write and the way you mostly "get it" about setting her free that you are.

I was always upfront with my ex about anytime I was going to meet with a lawyer, and any drafts of our dissolution agreement I always had her examine first. If you maintain setting her free is the way to go, you both have to admit things are not working and that you will both cooperate into seeing a dissolution agreement through. But YOU should do the bulk of the work on it, set up a custody schedule you think is fair, set up what you think is fair for child support relative to the time you spend with your kids, how much you pay for daycare as the primary breadwinner, and so on. Give her an offer that's fair for both of you, make it as much of a win-win situation as you can in a situation which nobody really wins. Just keep the kids in mind first and foremost. Then, with her awareness, take it to your attorney and have him review.

I really do think you have to do this to set her free. She IS telling you she wants out, but she doesn't want to be blindsided by activity she thinks is going on between you and an attorney. I think she wants to be a part of getting out of this uncomfortable situation with you, not without you. I would talk to her and see. If she balks about going through with this, then you reiterate, "look, I'm confused, if you don't want to go through with it, do you really want to keep going on like this? I cannot and will not keep going on like this."

Apparently, all the right answers to these problems are to indeed do the things that are counter-intuitive. Hard to do, but from what I can tell, you two are planets apart, not just miles apart at this time. The intuitive things don't work at a time like this.

As far as being her friend, just think of her like your best male friend at this point. If you don't feel like doing something for her, don't. If you do, then do it. You wouldn't bend over backwards all the time for a buddy of yours, nor would you plead and chase a male friend to come back into your life. You also wouldn't "go dark" on your best male friend either unless he did something just completely unconscienable. Treat her almost the same as you would your BEST male friend.

Yes, you probably should keep the OM issue out of it, but don't think for a minute there isn't one. You're closer to her than anyone and you know when things aren't right. But it's kind of like living in a old house with suspect plumbing, and standing downstairs in a room that is directly below an upstairs bathroom. By the time that something "bad" is leaking through the roof and makes its way to your attention, you can be darn sure that when you go up there to investigate it's going to be much much worse, because you still went ahead and trusted that bathroom plumbing even though you knew it was suspect.

Sorry, all I know how to do is write questionable metaphors.

Point is, this suspicion alone is enough to cause you enough anguish to not tolerate things any longer. What if your son was 12 and saw this going on? How might he look at you? You can't go on like this forever. And you should take the initiative to do something to stop it. That initiative I beleive is the lawyer and setting a dissolution in motion, because it is the only thing to show you are serious enough to demand your dignity back and to allow yourself to be away from someone who has clearly expressed they don't want to be with you.



M-30
W-28
D-3
Found OM's presence 4/09
Separated 12/09
Divorced 8/10

[john28]

Sorry, even after all my ramblings, I failed to mention the whole wedding ring thing. I noticed that for the past few weeks - she has not worn her wedding rings at all. She even 'unfriended' me on Facebook, and listed herself as not married.

This may have been in response to a text that I sent to her a few days after her night of not coming home - when I said that I knew who she was with and I wasn't happy that she lied to me about it.

Since then, she changed the password on her (and the kids) phone account - so I cannot see who she texts now - and also one of her credit card accounts.

I know that was a stupid move on my part - but you live and learn, I guess.

I still have access to some of her personal information, and have checked up on her to see what I can find. But, TBH, lately I haven't really cared that much. If she wants to do whatever - without me - than what does it matter.

Ok, I will recap for you.

1. She takes her ring off.
2. She unfriends you on facebook so you can't see what she's doing.
3. She lists herself as not married on facebook.
4. She changed the password on her phone so you can't see what she texts.
5. She changes the password on a single credit card so you can't see where she goes.


COME ON MAN WAKE UP. Seriously? She's have an A. No doubt in my mind.

Time to do some aggressive affair busting.

[looking2keepmywf]

Grocerykarman,

I genuinely appreciate the extensive feedback, and quality of advice you have given me. It makes perfect sense to me.

We'll see if we can talk tonight - it will be best before our girls are back with us next week.

[sandi2]

I still have access to some of her personal information, and have checked up on her to see what I can find. But, TBH, lately I haven't really cared that much. If she wants to do whatever - without me - than what does it matter.

Man you aren't just "laid back" and "go with the flow".....you are just lazy! That is why the M is in this shape. You bored your W right out of your bedroom, your M and your life.

So, what do YOU want to do? You sound like you don't want to do anything that requires any effort. Isn't that the real reason you are willing to set her free?

Decide what you are willing to live with.....and what you are not willing to live with. Define your personal boundaries and start from there.

[looking2keepmywf]

You may be right Sandi. Obviously, I have not made her happy.

What I do want to do is to work my butt off to try and fix our marriage. I certainly have been guilty of taking her for granted. Let me be clear - I am NOT happy about this situation, her EA/PA with OM (as everyone else sees as obvious).

I want to either have her and I both work on our marriage to see if we can fix what we have - or give her what she tells me she wants - which is to set her free.

I have really changed my actions in a big way since this has happened. I've been training (again) for another half marathon, I've been dieting, and have lost 12 lbs, I have taken a more active role in my son's daily activities and care than ever before.

I have changed, want to continue to change for the better regardless of whether I can make my marriage work.

Believe me when I say that I think about all of this every minute of every day. I actually had a good laugh a few days ago when my son said something pretty funny. It's the first time I have laughed in quite awhile.

Thanks for your honest feedback.

[looking2keepmywf]

I had a productive talk tonight with the W. It is clear that she wants out, and so we have agreed to get a divorce. I told her that we should try and be as mature about this as possible, and work together to come up with the terms of the divorce. She has already agreed that we will split custody of my S. We didn't really talk about my 2 SD's, but they will be fine as they are almost grown and on their own anyway.

We do have the near term problem of her living here until she can find a job. I told her that I am NOT moving out. She can go and live with her Mom, or she can wait until she finds a job to move out. There is a lot of work to do on the house to get it ready to sell, but we both agreed to work on this as we will have to sell the house. It's probably best as there are way too many memories here.

I recognize now that I have neglected our relationship to the point that it is no longer fixable. Maybe it is normal, but I certainly keep thinking about everything that has happened, what I could have done differently, and TBH - what I need to do to NEVER have this happen again. Obviously, I am a long way from having to worry about that, but it's certainly something that I want to make sure I don't do with my son.

My son, I hope, will be fine. He knows that both of us love him dearly, and I do think that we will do our best to keep him as happy as can be, given the circumstances.

It is going to be very difficult getting through this, but I feel that I have a decent support system in place - and this forum is one of those.

I could never have imagined that I would be in this place again - since this is my second marriage too, but here I am. I thought that the real reason for my first marriage failure was due to my EW's insane and unfounded jealousy. But, it very well could have been due to my neglecting our relationship too. Maybe someday I will know for sure.

I know that this will likely make me a better parent as I already have been 'stepping it up' in that regard. And I am trying to keep a positive attitude on this whole situation. I will get through this, and it will make me a better person in the long run. One step at a time, and day by day.

[looking2keepmywf]

Thanks again Grocerykartman - your advice was dead on, and I had so much more confidence in how to proceed on this. It helped me a lot, and for that I am so grateful. Thank you!

[sandi2]

Making these changes in yourself came with a hefty price. The real test will be to make these changes a life-long change.....and not some "reaction" to a dying M.

If you can really drop the rope and set her free......and move forward, happily, there is always the chance the A will die and she'll begin to miss the man she fell in love with and M......especially when she begins to see him surface in you.

If that happens, then she will begin to do little things (pursuing you)and your part is to be very calm, confident, and no falling back into her web. If she wants you again, make her work for you.

[looking2keepmywf]

Indeed so, Sandi. Way too high of a price. And, you're right that it needs to be a life long change - not a near term one. Time will tell, but I know I can do it.

We talked about her doings again last night and I asked her to come clean with me as to what's going on. She still maintains that there is no OM - just friends. And, TBH, I believe her. But, you can certainly call it an EA - or just her reaching out to her friends for support.

But, I understand what you are saying about the possibilities in the future, and to be careful. As much as I'd like to think that could happen - I just don't see it. Once she makes up her mind about something - it rarely, if ever changes. I guess her feelings towards me did, but it's doubtful they will ever change back.

And, that's OK because I have to let go and proceed ahead with this. Right now, it's just hard to get over these feelings that I have - what could I have done differently, where did I go wrong, and the general numbness that I have about the whole sitch. My feelings have changed from anger to sadness, and sometimes it is hard to stay focused on the tasks at hand.

I'm trying to work on one step at a time and take each day to accomplish things towards the goal of getting this all done. I guess this kind of thing is never easy - for anyone.

[looking2keepmywf]

A fine example of letting go - I am. Tonight I got all pissy with the STBXW. She ordered my son a Halloween costume - which he's been waiting for, for at least a week. When it arrived, I opened the box only to find 2 other adult male costumes. Not sexual or anything, but costumes for someone else I can only assume.

Needless to say, I wasn't very pleasant when the STBXW got home. I apologized to her, but was more pissed at myself for getting mad. That's not exactly a good example of letting her go.