A new beginning to an end

[CityGirl]

Sol - your last post really has me concerned.

While your home might have negative equity it is still a bargaining tool that will give you leverage.

I am stunned your attny would suggest you sign it over and then say support may be requested at a later date. You don't GIVE UP something until you GET something.

You don't hand over your biggest asset (and even with negative equity it is still an asset) in the hopes you might get something in return if you ask.

If your H and his attny are not responding to the documents you and your attny are sending as per the time frame established by state law then use legal procedures to get them to respond.

The judge isn't going to by "fair". They are going to go by state law and I am going to guess you don't live in a fault based state.

I would urge you to educate yourself on state law.

My C always says the true nature of what people really are comes out in a divorce.

[ImprovedRomeo]

What CG said!

I hate to say this but your L doesn't seem like the sharpest tool in the shed either that or he's such a genius that I don't understand his logic lol

Signing over something without getting something in return is NOT how the negotiations work. It's tit for tat.

Also, don't just ask for something from the house either. Use the house as the bargaining chip for EVERYTHING you want. Tell your L:

"I will surrender all interests and debts in the property (Address: blah blah) to be solely H's. In return I will take a lump sump payment of $xx in cash and I will keep my car (make/model/year) free and clear etc"

THEN you deal with the support payments as a separate issue.

[soleil]

My C always says the true nature of what people really are comes out in a divorce.

Amen to that!

"I will surrender all interests and debts in the property (Address: blah blah) to be solely H's. In return I will take a lump sump payment of $xx in cash and I will keep my car (make/model/year) free and clear etc".

Good advice from both of you. Thank you. Romeo, I emailed my L back stating what you wrote above. That I will sign deed over in exchange for X. Let's see how it shakes out. My L was very adamant saying the home has zero equity and it's a liability, not an asset.

CG, this is a no-fault state but he filed initially with the divorce by bed and board (separation) on grounds of 'abandonment.'

(insert joke here)

Falalalala getting divorce and actually today not having such a bad day. LOL.

[CityGirl]

Nobody is debating the fact that your home has zero equity. But you do need to think a step further - if you buy a new home you will need to come up with a down payment, closing costs, insurance, inspection and attny's fees. Or you can stay in a home that has little to no equity without shelling out thousands to get started again in a new home.

Your attny needs to be looking at the "now" and the future. Forget the equity as that is a moot point. Basically your H gets to stay in a home (and what happens when the market turns around or he gets a raise and can get the home out of the negative) with *some* possibility. You on the other hand get nothing EXCEPT the knowledge that you will have to save for a long time to even get in a home.

He gets the house - you get money. Period. Do NOT use any other item (car, support) to negotiate about the house.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Do NOT use any other item (car, support) to negotiate about the house.

Good point but it depends on the amount of money Sol is asking for. If it's a sinking property I'd rather her not take it and get a few other things in return along with a cash payment. He'd be more than willing to let her keep other 'property' than handing her a big lump sump cash. If he feels cornered he'd say 'fine let's sell the house and we'll divide things up that way' which is probably something to avoid. I know I'd do that if STBXW asks for too much.

Personally I see the property division as one item (house, cars etc), cash, retirement, equity accounts as a second item and spousal support as a third item. And hopefully it's done.

[CityGirl]

A car can hardly be a comparable asset to a home. Clearly all attnys work in different ways but my attny said that cross over negotiations set you up for a loss.

EX: D got our car and in exchange I got a lump sum equal to what the car cost the day we bought it.

The car had nothing to do with the other "line items" in our settlement. Perhaps the difference in state law makes one strategy more sensible than the other.

Too bad if he feels cornered. He can't "decide" to sell a house that he only half "owns". We aren't here to make Mr. Sol comfortable. We (attny) are here to make sure Sol gets exactly what she needs for her future.

He already shook her down for a green card - patterns of manipulation tend to repeat themselves and while the court may not notice it - it is just another bargaining tool to pull out.

[CityGirl]

And really - had Sol not signed for the green card all of this would be moot as he would not even be in the country! The only reason he is IN the house is because of Sol!

Sol's H had Sol sign for the green card under false pretenses. That is very, very serious as far as immigration is concerned. I bet if *that* is presented in the proper legal way cash would be flying around faster than any of us could blink.

[soleil]

We (attny) are here to make sure Sol gets exactly what she needs for her future.

I should have hired you guys as my lawyers! Hey CG and Romeo--if your careers don't work out, you'd make fine divorce attys.

And really - had Sol not signed for the green card all of this would be moot as he would not even be in the country! The only reason he is IN the house is because of Sol!

Sol's H had Sol sign for the green card under false pretenses.

I really hate thinking about this beause it makes my skin crawl. I won't even go there. Never will I ever forget when that happened. This was also right around the time he told me he wanted to do MC after vehemently saying NO to going (for a year). Then a few months later he sat me down to tell me he'd in fact had GC for months and oh by the way, I f-cked some girl I met and took home at the same place I took you to the night I asked you to go to MC with me (well, he didn't say it in those words but you know...)

[CityGirl]

Sol - I can't imagine how painful the green card experience was. IMO your H should be sent soaking wet to the electric chair for that stunt. I know you don't want to think about it but it does really give you tangible evidence your H can't be trusted. Untrustworthy people tend to gravitate to untrustworthy attnys when choosing counsel.

Honestly, your attny sounds like a flake and pretty soft given the circumstances but then again I don't know the laws that govern your state so perhaps that is an unfair assessment.

No matter what state you are in (general you) I would urge anybody to really educate themselves to some degree on the individual state laws that govern them. Relying on an attny is fine but IMO the entire process will be "easier" if you are aware of all the ins and outs.

[ImprovedRomeo]

Sol, it's very hurtful but I don't think it was the only reason he married you. I don't think anyone can be that shallow. I'm sure he loved you for all your great qualities but then he strayed but no matter the reasons it hurts to be abandoned.

You could use the GC stuff as a way to keep him in check because it really could turn into a potential legal/immigration matter but I don't think this is about getting even. To me this is more about you. Even if he gets deported or thrown in jail does that help you move forward in your life? Temporarily it'll feel great but later? I don't know.

I too have the dirt on STBXW but I'd rather not use it unless it's *absolutely* necessary and even then I'd think about it twice. It's just not me and I don't want to become her.

I agree, CG will make a *fine* attny