I have not played my guitar in months. I played it for a woman a few nights ago and she had tears in her eyes. I don't think my wife ever had a response like that- not many do. Play that guitar Future, be happy.
Me 35 Wife 34 Two daughters 8 years and 3 years Bomb 3/30/09 W filed 4/16/09 We met in'92 married in 2000 Divorce final
I'm sad and embarassed to say that I very rarely played my guitar for my W. She loved that I could play music, and yet I almost never did. In fact, the night we first kissed was the night I threw a party at my house and several other musicians and I had a jam session. Fun stuff.
As we got together, I slowly stopped playing, for her, or for me. I knew she loved it, and I chose not to do it. After we got married and had kids, I knew she hoped I'd play for our kids. She got me a book of children's music, and I never used it. I was too overworked, too stressed, and too tired all the time. Sucks.
These are the things I remember that temper my reaction to my WAW. She did have reason to slowly give up on me.
Life goes on. I will keep playing v1olin. You keep playing too!
"W, I've thought about what you said before you left. It won't work for me. I can't continue to be married to you while you date other men. If that's what you choose to do, this isn't going to work, and we need to make arrangements to end our marriage. We almost had our agreement finalized last year, so I think we could have it done relatively quickly. No more anger or resentment. I won't agree to less than 50/50 custody though, so if that's going to be an issue, we might as well not waste our time, and just let the courts decide."
My counterproposal would go something like:
"I am willing to date you and do family things together, including going to Disney, and put off the legal stuff, provided you give up this notion of an open relationship, and make a real committment to reconciliation. I'm fine with putting the past aside for a while."
Either way, I'll finish with:
"Think about it while we're gone, and let me know when we get back (six days). I'm sure neither one of us wants to drag this out longer than we need to."
Make sure she knows that it will be fun dates, no relationship talks. Just leave all that aside for six months or whatever. This counter sounds strong ... does not compromise your ethics about being married and dating. I think she may like that you are standing for something.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
If I decide to make the counteroffer, I refuse to come off as needy. I need to convey the attitude that I'm offering a way to save our M, but it's an OFFER, not a REQUEST, and that I'm fine either way.
Quote:
"Roll Me Away" is probably my favorite by him (and a great GAL song!), but it's piano-based, as are a lot of his other good ones.
Listened to this on the way to work this morning. Been a long time. Wow, it is a great song, especially for someone from Michigan, who's been to Mackinaw City, like me :-). No way I could ever do the vocals on a song like that. I can do Seger's "calmer" styles, but not that!
Yeah, piano based songs are the bane of acoustic solo guitar guys. Never fails that someone will request "Piano Man", or "Bridge Over Troubled Water", or "We've Got Tonight". Come on, I'm a guy with a single acoustic guitar, give me a break!
Future, Another idea...maybe you tell her that THIS marriage needs to end. That you are living apart. The reconciliation is rocky and it would do you both well to end this marriage. That maybe in the future you two can start something new and different, but this one needs to end. There is some symbolism in that.
The ending of a marriage is terrible, but those logistical details are really stressful and if you get them over with, you can maybe date W sometime again. It might feel different. I don't know how things work in NY, but I'd be really uncomfortable if I was still liable for my H's finances and other legal commitments and we had been living apart for so long. Doesn't that worry you??? The divorce logistics were so stressful...it would be hard to focus on a rebuilding a relationship when you are walking that line for so long and its been so ambiguous for so long.
And, if you are going to date women other than W, even casually, who wants to date someone who is still married??
I've heard of a lot of people being divorced for a few years and then getting back together and having it work out. This is a rocky time for her. She needs to figure herself out. You've been drug through the mud for long enough. Tell her you are "freeing" her to do what she needs to do. Let her do it and if she comes back different later, then you can see. BUT, it sounds to me like she clearly needs the attention of other men to feel "validated". That's a bad sign for a stable marriage. Its a character issue.
Future what musclegal says is kind of how I view my sitch. I believe that XW really needed the old M to end. I may be kidding myself but that is how I see it. Whether we get back together or not is not the goal but I set her free and gave her the D that she wanted. Only time will tell what will happen next. Best of luck to you Future!
Me48 WAW46 M24 yrs S24 D21 D19 EA disc 6/09 2nd EA Fall 09 I move out 11/12/09 W and I switch 1/14/10 D Filed 3/17/10 W moves in with OM 6/8/10 D Final 6/21/10
Sorry folks for the long period of silence. I had to travel back to Michigan for my Grandmother's funeral, and was there for a week. My daughter's birthday was a couple days after returning. I had agreed weeks ago to throw our daughter's party together with W, so I held off on our talk until it was done. I have to admit, the party was an blast. W threw it at her house. My idea was for W to set up a stage in her garage, and I'd set up my PA and mics, and my gift to my daughter was a karaoke machine for her and her friends to have fun with at the party. A little hard on the ears, but the kids loved it. The day after the party, W and I agreed to meet to talk.
During the party, W was acting quite flirtatious, but otherwise has been distant. Communication between us has been very minimal for the last several weeks. I was anticipating a fairly negative vibe in our conversation. I was wrong. We talked for a long time, and there's no way I can put it all here, so I'll try to include the most important parts.
Right off, W said "I hope this is the first of several conversations. I saw MC this morning, and we had a good talk that helped me understand a few things." Then we got into it, and W wanted to know what I meant by the text message I sent her while she was gone, saying that it was inappropriate to go to Disney together if we are dating other people. She was annoyed by its short and absolute message. She said "Can you explain what that was all about? I thought when I left we were looking good to go on the trip together." I said "First, when we talked about taking a trip together, I laid out what my dealbreakers are, and you completely ignored one of them." She acted confused, and said "What did I do?" I got a little ticked by her clueless act, and said "You called him." She said "You just said I needed to tell you, and I did." I said "No, my dealbreaker was that you contacting him in any way ever again, and if HE contacted YOU, then you need to tell me. Seems pretty clear to me." She looked a little scared and said "So that's it?" I just looked back at her without saying anything. She backed off and said "I misunderstood. I needed to contact him to end it once and for all. What would you have liked me to do?" I said "If you needed to do that, you needed to tell me, and get my input. Ask me if I was ok with it. See if I was more comfortable with an e-mail instead of a call." She looked at me and took my hands. She said "I'm sorry I didn't consider that." She seemed sincere, but I still wasn't feeling like she really GOT IT. She said "I'm totally fine living the rest of my life without ever talking to him again."
Then she got a little swagger back into her voice and said "But that's not even what your text message said. So what's going on? Which is it?" I said "It's all the same thing, if you want to be involved with other men, then it's not appropriate for us to be doing things together as a family." She said "I didn't even say that I wanted to date other men. I have no interest in dating other men. I just said I wanted to be able to go out and have fun, and flirt. All this is so much, and I can only take so much sadness and heartbreak. I need to have some fun and happiness in my life. Our time together has this toxic tinge to it. I believe I said that we should feel free to go out and have fun, and if either of us gets into a sitation where we want to have sex with someone else, then we should tell each other."
She again got annoyed and said "H, you're all worked up about OM, and that's not what the problem is." I said "If that isn't the problem, then it should have been nothing when I asked you why he was still on your facebook. You should have just said you didn't realize he was on there, it was nothing, and you'd immediately take him off. Then it would have been no big deal. But because you acted annoyed that I brought it up, and defended it, I know that it IS a big deal." She said "By then, I was already pulling away from you, so no, I didn't want to feel controlled by you. I feel like you're giving me these ultimatums, trying to control me, like you used to, and I won't go back to that." So ridiculous, if anyone in our marriage was being controlled, it was ME, not HER. I said "I haven't given you any ultimatums." She replied "You won't go to Disney if I say I'm going to go out and have fun and flirt." I said "It's not an ulimatum. You told me what you want, and I'm telling you what's right for me. Do whatever you want." She looked agitated. I can see her common manipulations aren't working, and it's causing her anxiety to build up. Her face and neck were getting flushed, a sign of anxiety in her.
She got a defeated tone, and weakly tried to defend herself. She said "You know the reason I kept him on my facebook? I like looking at his music choices. I told you I really want to find some new music, and I was looking at his choices." What a pathetic thing to say. Does she really think I'll be fine with her keeping him in her life so she can take advantage of his music recommendations? Does she really not think I can see that it's some desperate attempt to keep him in her life? Is she serious?! By the way, he is STILL on her FB.
Then she said "H, I'm still trying to be hopeful about us, but I have to be honest, I don't think we can get past this. I don't think you'll ever let it go. I don't think I can ever do enough to convince you how sorry I am." I finally decided to employ a little gucci, and said "You're right, I'm not sure I ever can. My trust in you has been seriously broken, and I don't know if I can get it back. It'll take a long time." Her reaction was surprising. She perked up and looked relieved, and said "Thank you so much for saying that. Thank you." A beautiful demonstration of what is preached here so often. AGREE with them, make them feel like you are on THEIR side, not OPPOSING them. She wanted to know that I could feel the hopelessness of our situation WITH her.
Then she said something profoundly sad. She said "You know what <son> said to me when I told him about Disney? I said I had something exciting to tell them, and when I said we were going to Disney, he looked really sad and walked away. I went and talked to him and asked him why, but he wouldn't tell me. I asked him if he thought I was going to say that we were getthing back together, and he nodded and started crying." It hit me like a sledgehammer, and I almost broke down there at the table. She said "I know. I'm sorry. I can see how devastated you are by that. H, we were reckless. We can't do it anymore. If we want to find out if we can get this to work between us, it has to only be us, away from the kids. They can't see it any more until we know." I nodded, and said "With our schedules, that is so tough." She smiled and said "Why are you so negative on that? We just need to get a regular babysitter and go out on dates. It'll be fun." I was touched by her optimism.
I thought about perhaps discussing some potential date ideas, but our time was up, and she needed to get back for an appointment. She said "I can't take any more today. Let's just sit on what we said here today, and talk again, ok?" I looked at my watch and said "Ok." We had a long hug, and that was it.
I have skipped over a lot of stuff. It's impossible to include a whole one hour conversation here, but I think I captured the general flavor. It's funny. Her tendancy to manipulate is so entrenched. I can see her fighting it, and trying to be open and honest, but it's a struggle for her. I'm struggling against my own entrenched tendancy to avoid, and fix, and please. I don't know if we'll be able to find a new healthy way to be together.
