"You say potata I say potato, you say tomata, I say tomato." "let's call the whole thing off."
Just feeling a little froggy right now.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Another thought: I think we use the term Walkaway Spouse/Wife to encompass more than it was intended to encompass. MWD described this as a particular syndrome and although DBing, or parts of DBing may be effective in many marriages in crises, WAW syndrome was not intended to describe every situation where a spouse wants to leave a marriage.
Agreed!
I agree that every spouse that walks away from a marriage is a walk away spouse ;-)
Wouldn't you agree that a spouse who walks away from a marriage is a walk away spouse?
Well, I understand how one might feel that way but in the context of MWD's work, including this website, "Walkaway" has a particular meaning and I think it might become confusing if we refer to every spouse who initiates a divorce as a walkaway, but perhaps that's just me?
if you’re confident, independent and have self-esteem, you don’t need external validation
so to validate? agree? affirm? does it matter?
That's what I thought and that's what landed me here. It turns out that women need validation on a biochemical level and if they don't get it, it impedes their ability to produce certain hormones which inhibits their ability to handle stress and feel "connected." Surprise! At least, I was surprised to learn this. I feel like I should have been handed a manual at the altar. Take a look at John Gray's "Why Mars and Venus Collide: Improving Relationships by Understanding How Men and Women Cope Differently with Stress"
There is also a substantial difference between agreeing and validating and it is an important difference. After my wife dropped the bomb, we had a couple of R conversations. During one of them she said that she didn't remember ever having a conversation about emotions with me where she walked away feeling good about herself. That was news to me, not because I didn't realize that she never walked away feeling good, but BECAUSE I NEVER REALIZED WE HAD EVEN A SINGLE CONVERSATION ABOUT EMOTIONS!
I thought we were having discussions about actual family and child rearing issues that needed a resolution. She just needed to hear me acknowledge her feelings and worries and not tell her that she was overreacting etc. Now you can't always be in validation mode because sometimes you have to actually address the issues at hand. John Gray suggests that couples should be clear about what kind of conversation they are having. Hey, I certainly would have liked to have known.
Now if your spouse says that she is worried about (fill in some preposterous scenario) validating just means that you acknowledge that they are worried, not that the preposterous scenario is going to happen, is worth worrying about, etc., should be handled the way their fear seems to dictate.
Honestly, it's like learning a new language. I hope I'm not coming off as overbearing. I feel the grief pouring into this forum and it's a grief that I was very recently experiencing myself and I just want to share the insight that I have gained in a very narrow area. I don't know diddly about how to deal with PA or EA's, but I could be the poster boy for the withdrawing/invalidating husband, a distinction of which I am thoroughly ashamed.
I did a lot of research, but I’ve boiled down the list to the following. I was very skeptical of the Men are from Mars books as I presumed they were pop psych books. It’s hard to dismiss them, though, when you have no idea what happened in your relationship and you learn that they completely describe your behavior and your wife’s response. The below books will allow you to stop focusing on your own pain and focus on hers because you’ll begin to understand how her emotional well being has been slowly and steadily eroded. As much trauma as we’ve experienced in one fell swoop, they have experienced over a long period. As you gain more insight, be prepared to feel guilty, but you need to move past that to where you will actually feel compassion for her. You will begin to look at her as similar to a person who is drowning. They would never intentionally drown another person, but in trying to save themselves, they will pull others (you and your children) under too. They’re just trying to save themselves. (Of course, this doesn’t apply to every sitch.) That is how much pain and distress THEY are in.
John Gray “Men are From Mars, Women are from Venus.”
John Gray “Why Mars and Venus Collide: Improving Relationships by Understanding How Men and Women Cope Differently with Stress Why Mars and Venus Collide: Improving Relationships by Understanding How Men and Women Cope Differently with Stress”
MWD “Divorce Remedy.”
Gary Chapman “The 5 Love Languages: The Secret to Love That Lasts”
Patricia Love, et al, “Hot to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It” (Sounds snarky, but it’s not.)
Patricia Love, “The Truth about Love”
Plenty of other good books, but these are the ones that come immediately to mind.
"Collide" is the most scientific of the bunch and provides the biological basis for the differences between the sexes in regard to how we function in relationships and why our current sociological paradigm has contributed to the problem. Reading that one was a very important step for me.
but in the context of MWD's work, including this website, "Walkaway" has a particular meaning and I think it might become confusing if we refer to every spouse who initiates a divorce as a walkaway, but perhaps that's just me?