Situation continues to evolve for me. W has definitely pulled back a good amount. I can see she is struggling, and she is trying to be honest, rather than play games. She found out she has two herniated discs in her neck, and may need to have surgery. She was devastated by the news. She told me on the phone friday, and I could hear she was scared and upset. I knew she was at her office, so as a 180 for me, I decided to make a stop in there to see her. I showed up at her office, something I've never done before. She looked shocked, and asked "What are you doing here?" I just smiled and said "On the phone you sounded like you needed a hug", and I reached out and hugged her. She grabbed hold and hugged back for quite a while. Her accountant (an older woman) was there, and she introduced me as her husband. We chit chatted for a few minutes, then I said I had to go. Before I left I said "It would be my pleasure to take you and the kids to dinner tonight, if you'd like." She enthusiastically said "Absolutely!"
I had plans for the night, but they weren't until later, so I picked up W and kids at her house after work. W was still pretty stressed out, and wasn't dealing well with the kids. We went out to eat, and had a great time. Went back to W's house, and I said I have to go since I have plans. W was in so much of a better mood, she and the kids asked if I could stay for one game of cards, and I said sure. After the game I left to go to a concert with friends. W seemed light and happy when I left. She thanked me for the night, and told me it totally changed her mood, and that she's now fine to handle the kids.
Her neck has finally been feeling better enough for us to go out on a date. She had asked me a few weeks ago if I'd take her out on a nice date, get all dressed up, etc, and I said sure. Saturday night was the night we planned to go. We went to a fabulous restaurant we've wanted to go to for years. Perfect weather. Our conversation covered a lot of ground.
She is struggling so much. I actually do feel sorry for her. She had been pulling back over the last couple weeks, not very affectionate with me, no talk about us or the future. No anger either, just some distance. I wanted to get everything right out on the table, so I opened right up:
Me: "If this isn't going anywhere good, I'm really okay with us just stopping." W: "I know I've been distant lately, there's so much going on for me with my neck right now, I just don't have anything left for dealing with us." Me: I know her, and I know she was using that as an excuse to explain her pullback. I said "I know it's been hard on you, but that's not it. I was happy a few months ago, and I have be honest, I'm not as happy now." W: "I know you were happy, and I don't want you being devastated again, so if at any point you want to stop doing this, just let me know and we can stop." Me: I was a bit insulted by her attitude that I was some lovesick puppy, and she was forced to offer to be a martyr to prevent me from getting hurt. That BS, so I said "I'm not capable of being devastated anymore, it has nothing to do with that. I am very clear about what I want out of a R, and if this isn't going to satisfy that, then I'm fine moving on." W: She was surprised, and just said "Oh, ok."
We were together for four hours, the conversation wandered all over. The restaurant we were at was ridiculously romantic, and we were being very affectionate. We were probably one of those couples the other patrons were noticing, for all of our physical touching and our eyes never leaving each other. W started being very honest about how she's feeling.
W: "I've never thought I'd be with anyone when I was an old woman. I always just envisioned myself alone. I don't know why." Me: I just nodded and listened, and said "Interesting." W: She lightened up a little, then said "I don't know, sometimes I think I can maybe have a few more opportunities to get laid, then just settle into being alone." Me: I was really appreciating her opening up to me, but it's hard to hear your W talk about getting laid. W: Funny, then she asked "When you're out, do women hit on you?" Me: I laughed and said "Middle aged women are so desperate." W: "Thanks a lot!" She got more serious and said "I look at myself in the mirror, and I see all these wrinkles. I was never good at picking up men, and now I know whatever looks I had are fading." Me: I started to say something, and she cut me off. W: "I'm not fishing for a compliment. Really." Me: I can see she'll just think any attempt at me telling her how physically attractive she is will sound like I'm arguing with her self assessemtn, so I say "W, you are smart, and fun, and interesting." W: "No I'm not, I mean, I know I can read people, and I'm insightful into emotions, I know that, but other than that, there's really not a whole lot else I have to offer." Me: I can see she is really hurting inside. I say "W, one thing I've realized being out there is how much it means to me to be with someone who is interested in talking about things, different ideas, willing to give almost anything a chance, and you are. That's very appealing, trust me." W: She's still not entirely buying it, and says "I really need a hobby or two." Me: "Sounds great, what do you want to do?" Then I lightened back up, and had to tease her a little. I said "I have to admit, when we started spending time together, I was a little shocked how much you are into TV. You asked me what shows I watch, and there aren't any, and you have a list of shows you're into, so yeah, I think a hobby would be great!" W: Playfully hits me and says "Jerk!"
What has become apparent to me is how much she had been relying on her A to take the place of real growth, and now she's feeling that. She's on her own, and she feels boring and old. Wow, amazing how these situations progress.
Another interesting bit of conversation.
Me: "W, I have taken serious stock of myself, and done serious relfecting how I failed as a husband. I've expressed that to you, and I've owned it. I have to say, I haven't heard much from you about your part." W: Gets uncomfortable, and looks a little scared, then says "I know, I know there are things we need to talk about." Me: "W, you have a burden to carry, and you don't even seem to acknowledge that, let alone show me you're willing to accept it." W: Just nods in response. Me: I'm getting increasingly frustrated with her continued satisfaction with this limbo, so I say "W, seemed to me you were interested in me sexually a few weeks ago, but I'm not feeling any of that any more. A part of me thinks that it's just not there, so maybe we should just admit that." W: She got a little angry and said "H, if it wasn't there, I wouldn't be here. When we're making out, I get turned on. It's working, trust me, but there is still old stuff between us holding me back. If and when we get there, I want to be ML to you completely, without anything in the way." Me: The look on her face was very convincing, so I smiled, and said "Wow... ok."
We talked about many more light things, and did some fun flirting. Our dinner was over and we went to leave. We were upstairs at the restaurant, and we had to walk down a set of back stairs to get out. At the bottom of the stairs I realized we were in complete privacy. She had taken a step into the main dining room, and I said "Hey" and I pulled her back to the landing of the stairs, and into me. I aggressively kissed her and grabbed her sexually, for just a moment, then smiled and said "Now we can go", and started walking. She was stunned, and came up to me and whispered something playful and sexual in my ear. We walked out with her arms wrapped around my side.
A park was nearby. We drove there and parked, and walked through the park. A big gazebo was in the middle, all lit up. Completely unplanned, I led her up the steps of the gazebo, and grabbed her and we started to slowly dance, with no music! People were all around, they must have thought we were nuts! We just swayed in concert with each other, and I said "Are you imagining any particular song?" She said "No, I'm listening to you." Incredibly romantic. We dance for about five minutes, then walk down, and go to a nearby place for one last drink and a little more talk. We were both really starting to falter by then, tired, and emotionally exhausted from the conversation. We left the place and made out in front of the car for a few minutes. I drove her back home, we made out for a few more minutes, she said "Thank you for tonight", and she went inside.
Situation continues to evolve for me. W has definitely pulled back a good amount. I can see she is struggling, and she is trying to be honest, rather than play games. She found out she has two herniated discs in her neck, and may need to have surgery. She was devastated by the news. She told me on the phone friday, and I could hear she was scared and upset. I knew she was at her office, so as a 180 for me, I decided to make a stop in there to see her. I showed up at her office, something I've never done before. She looked shocked, and asked "What are you doing here?" I just smiled and said "On the phone you sounded like you needed a hug", and I reached out and hugged her. She grabbed hold and hugged back for quite a while. Her accountant (an older woman) was there, and she introduced me as her husband. We chit chatted for a few minutes, then I said I had to go. Before I left I said "It would be my pleasure to take you and the kids to dinner tonight, if you'd like." She enthusiastically said "Absolutely!"
I had plans for the night, but they weren't until later, so I picked up W and kids at her house after work. W was still pretty stressed out, and wasn't dealing well with the kids. We went out to eat, and had a great time. Went back to W's house, and I said I have to go since I have plans. W was in so much of a better mood, she and the kids asked if I could stay for one game of cards, and I said sure. After the game I left to go to a concert with friends. W seemed light and happy when I left. She thanked me for the night, and told me it totally changed her mood, and that she's now fine to handle the kids.
Her neck has finally been feeling better enough for us to go out on a date. She had asked me a few weeks ago if I'd take her out on a nice date, get all dressed up, etc, and I said sure. Saturday night was the night we planned to go. We went to a fabulous restaurant we've wanted to go to for years. Perfect weather. Our conversation covered a lot of ground.
She is struggling so much. I actually do feel sorry for her. She had been pulling back over the last couple weeks, not very affectionate with me, no talk about us or the future. No anger either, just some distance. I wanted to get everything right out on the table, so I opened right up:
Me: "If this isn't going anywhere good, I'm really okay with us just stopping." W: "I know I've been distant lately, there's so much going on for me with my neck right now, I just don't have anything left for dealing with us." Me: I know her, and I know she was using that as an excuse to explain her pullback. I said "I know it's been hard on you, but that's not it. I was happy a few months ago, and I have be honest, I'm not as happy now." W: "I know you were happy, and I don't want you being devastated again, so if at any point you want to stop doing this, just let me know and we can stop." Me: I was a bit insulted by her attitude that I was some lovesick puppy, and she was forced to offer to be a martyr to prevent me from getting hurt. That BS, so I said "I'm not capable of being devastated anymore, it has nothing to do with that. I am very clear about what I want out of a R, and if this isn't going to satisfy that, then I'm fine moving on." W: She was surprised, and just said "Oh, ok."
We were together for four hours, the conversation wandered all over. The restaurant we were at was ridiculously romantic, and we were being very affectionate. We were probably one of those couples the other patrons were noticing, for all of our physical touching and our eyes never leaving each other. W started being very honest about how she's feeling.
W: "I've never thought I'd be with anyone when I was an old woman. I always just envisioned myself alone. I don't know why." Me: I just nodded and listened, and said "Interesting." W: She lightened up a little, then said "I don't know, sometimes I think I can maybe have a few more opportunities to get laid, then just settle into being alone." Me: I was really appreciating her opening up to me, but it's hard to hear your W talk about getting laid. W: Funny, then she asked "When you're out, do women hit on you?" Me: I laughed and said "Middle aged women are so desperate." W: "Thanks a lot!" She got more serious and said "I look at myself in the mirror, and I see all these wrinkles. I was never good at picking up men, and now I know whatever looks I had are fading." Me: I started to say something, and she cut me off. W: "I'm not fishing for a compliment. Really." Me: I can see she'll just think any attempt at me telling her how physically attractive she is will sound like I'm arguing with her self assessemtn, so I say "W, you are smart, and fun, and interesting." W: "No I'm not, I mean, I know I can read people, and I'm insightful into emotions, I know that, but other than that, there's really not a whole lot else I have to offer." Me: I can see she is really hurting inside. I say "W, one thing I've realized being out there is how much it means to me to be with someone who is interested in talking about things, different ideas, willing to give almost anything a chance, and you are. That's very appealing, trust me." W: She's still not entirely buying it, and says "I really need a hobby or two." Me: "Sounds great, what do you want to do?" Then I lightened back up, and had to tease her a little. I said "I have to admit, when we started spending time together, I was a little shocked how much you are into TV. You asked me what shows I watch, and there aren't any, and you have a list of shows you're into, so yeah, I think a hobby would be great!" W: Playfully hits me and says "Jerk!"
What has become apparent to me is how much she had been relying on her A to take the place of real growth, and now she's feeling that. She's on her own, and she feels boring and old. Wow, amazing how these situations progress.
Another interesting bit of conversation.
Me: "W, I have taken serious stock of myself, and done serious relfecting how I failed as a husband. I've expressed that to you, and I've owned it. I have to say, I haven't heard much from you about your part." W: Gets uncomfortable, and looks a little scared, then says "I know, I know there are things we need to talk about." Me: "W, you have a burden to carry, and you don't even seem to acknowledge that, let alone show me you're willing to accept it." W: Just nods in response. Me: I'm getting increasingly frustrated with her continued satisfaction with this limbo, so I say "W, seemed to me you were interested in me sexually a few weeks ago, but I'm not feeling any of that any more. A part of me thinks that it's just not there, so maybe we should just admit that." W: She got a little angry and said "H, if it wasn't there, I wouldn't be here. When we're making out, I get turned on. It's working, trust me, but there is still old stuff between us holding me back. If and when we get there, I want to be ML to you completely, without anything in the way." Me: The look on her face was very convincing, so I smiled, and said "Wow... ok."
We talked about many more light things, and did some fun flirting. Our dinner was over and we went to leave. We were upstairs at the restaurant, and we had to walk down a set of back stairs to get out. At the bottom of the stairs I realized we were in complete privacy. She had taken a step into the main dining room, and I said "Hey" and I pulled her back to the landing of the stairs, and into me. I aggressively kissed her and grabbed her sexually, for just a moment, then smiled and said "Now we can go", and started walking. She was stunned, and came up to me and whispered something playful and sexual in my ear. We walked out with her arms wrapped around my side.
A park was nearby. We drove there and parked, and walked through the park. A big gazebo was in the middle, all lit up. Completely unplanned, I led her up the steps of the gazebo, and grabbed her and we started to slowly dance, with no music! People were all around, they must have thought we were nuts! We just swayed in concert with each other, and I said "Are you imagining any particular song?" She said "No, I'm listening to you." Incredibly romantic. We dance for about five minutes, then walk down, and go to a nearby place for one last drink and a little more talk. We were both really starting to falter by then, tired, and emotionally exhausted from the conversation. We left the place and made out in front of the car for a few minutes. I drove her back home, we made out for a few more minutes, she said "Thank you for tonight", and she went inside.
I think good step forward for us. We'll see...
And THAT, ladies and gentlemen . . . is how it's DONE.
Thanks Puppy. I'm not nearly as confident as these posts sound. I had moments of hesitation and insecurity that night too, but I think I did a decent job of leading. At one point she said "H, one thing I'm sure of now is no matter what happens, I know we'll be great friends." More cake eating crap. I had to pick my battles that night, so I didn't contest it, but I didn't validate it either. I know she was fishing for validation to lower her anxiety, but I didn't give it. Another time, in a particular moment of lunacy, she said "It would be so great if we could buy houses next to each other. The kids have been enjoying this so much." Again, I said nothing in response. Totally ridiculous.
She sent me an e-mail the next day thanking me again for the date. When I saw her later that day she said "Do you think we'll ever be able to go out and just have fun?" I said "Sure, if that's what we want, we'll put all the hard stuff off limits for a night." She smiled and said "Don't get me wrong, the night was great, but it gets exhausting talking about that stuff." I said "Yeah, it does."
I meaning that one way or another, you're going to have to make it clear to her that this isn't going to be Wisteria Lane here, with Ward living in one house and June across the street, and Wally and the Beav strolling happily 'tween the two.
Yes, I am. I think this situation may need to go through one more whole cycle to truly get resolved, meaning I may need to let go and move on, again, and let her feel that sting. I am increasingly confident that when push comes to shove, she will not let me go, but again she won't feel that until she's standing at the precipice. These WAW are infuriating!!!!
Don't be afraid to put your "best-friendship" on the table. My wife told me that losing THAT (and I made it VERY clear to her), more than anything, caused her to end her affair and come back to our marriage.
I got some clarity today about what I need. I realized that I haven't really taken hold of me, and established myself in activities that fill me. I know I do it with work and with relationships and travel, but I end up continuing to bounce around and feel unsettled and unhappy. So for the the next several weeks I'll be spending time trying to establish myself in a hobby that will help me feel anchored, and more myself. I'm going to resist caving to my inner temptation to simply bury myself with you, or with the kids, or with work. So when I say no thanks to invites in the upcoming weeks, please know this is why. I absolutely have to do this. And as a compliment, you've done it for your life and it's quite inspiring. I think that once I've established a life for me, I will be very clear about us. I do have moments that I want you, and want a life with you. But I also still have moments where I want to run away because I'm overwhelmed by 'your' or 'our' life. It seems very obvious and I feel like a dolt. My first plan is to look into something like a hiking club, or sierra club. I feel most grounded and calm and happy in nature-woods, water, desert.
W ************
My first reaction to this is one of compassion. I want her to find the happiness she's missing. She is incapable of truly being someone's partner until she finds it. I know that. We did speak on the phone last night after she sent the message, and I totally agreed with her. I wished her luck. She was very relieved and said "Don't think this means we won't spend any time together." I didn't give her anything like "I'll be here waiting", or any other such dreck. I told her I'm going back to living my life.
My second reaction is to walk away. She has been a lost soul her whole life. I don't know if I want to continue waiting for her to finally realize happiness is right in front of her. I almost replied to the e-mail with something along the lines of "Don't worry about finding clarity regarding us. I'm becoming convinced we are not meant to be. I truly hope you find what you're looking for. I know what I want and I'm going to go find it."
She is being kind and respectful to me, and she's obviously trying to be honest. She is so lost and unhappy, but I have not felt any anger from her in months. I do believe our R is healed from that point of view, but I am so weary of feeling unwanted.
