Originally Posted By: TimeHeals Quote: IMO you two have done WAY more talking that necessary.
It's as if he thinks if he can find the right magic words, all will be right with the world.
I can relate to that (mis-)conception. I was the exact same way!
Puppy
Oh, I can too! I think most of can relate to it. But how long did you go through it before you realized that your problem was trying to convince your spouse to "feel" a certain way, and their problems were things they would have to work out on their own?
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
I said divorce thinking that it would make things better. I dont honestly know if it would. Is running away and giving up everything I have, the answer? Will it give me what I want? Will it give me happiness if I have nothing. I wish life was easy. I wish the answers were clear. If I tried and stayed in this relationship it would be a long time before I could trust you again. And I dont know if I could ever believe that I mean the world to you. I really don't know what to do or what the answer is, that is why I haven't filed for anything or done anything yet. All I have been doing is crying and my headaches have gotten worse. It's hard for me to talk because I have been vulnerable for so long, I want to feel strong, but all I feel is lost and alone...I just dont know what to do!
This is actually GOOD news for you. See what happens when you let go and give them what they want? NOW she isn't so sure is she? SHE writes YOU a letter. You have been trying to find out what is going on in her mind for months and months and you finally let go and tell her maybe this is for the best and you aren't going to try any more because she says it isn't going to work, and LOOK what happens... SHE writes YOU a letter and starts spilling her guts. All because you finally are convincing her that you are really going to let this go. It is NOW in her hands. She isn't ready to let go yet is my guess.
She is NOT sure. You have called her out and now she is wavering.
OIN, Despite what others are telling you here, relationship talks are NOT always bad or the wrong thing to do. Especially when it is the WS that brings them up. The key is when they do bring them up that you know how to handle one. You did just fine. (finally)
NOW.. Hold the line on what you have told her. When she brings up another talk go back to your new default position..
Which is... "I now realize that you don't want to work on our relationship and nothing I can do will change it. I understand and don't blame you. I agree that maybe we should divorce and it will be for the best."
THAT is your position. She is now for the first time actually thinking the correct things. She is now wondering if it will or will not make her happy. You should have taken this position a long time ago. Stop trying and just let go and be cordial but no reaching out. Stay on this path.
Originally Posted By: TimeHeals Quote: IMO you two have done WAY more talking that necessary.
It's as if he thinks if he can find the right magic words, all will be right with the world.
I can relate to that (mis-)conception. I was the exact same way!
Puppy
Oh, I can too! I think most of can relate to it. But how long did you go through it before you realized that your problem was trying to convince your spouse to "feel" a certain way, and their problems were things they would have to work out on their own?
I struggled with the SSM aspects of this dynamic for YEARS (and still do). The affair-busting, however, and the general DBing, I picked up on very quickly once I discovered her adultery.
If I tried and stayed in this relationship it would be a long time before I could trust you again.
HUGE INSIGHT to her....
Your answer...."Yes, I know that it would be a long time if you could ever trust me again and I don't blame you.. However, I really don't want to be in a relationship wondering if you are ever going to trust me again and I certainly don't want to be in one like what we have had since I started to try and show you how much you mean to me. I also want someone who WANTS and chooses to be with me."
Your answer...."Yes, I know that it would be a long time if you could ever trust me again and I don't blame you.. However, I really don't want to be in a relationship wondering if you are ever going to trust me again and I certainly don't want to be in one like what we have had since I started to try and show you how much you mean to me. I also want someone who WANTS and chooses to be with me."
I agree with this gist of your message, Gucci. I just think we need to be careful with OIN because he is too focused on verbalization and not focused enough on actions.
Sure, he's saying he understands it isn't going to work like it is, and he's agreeing with her on divorce, but he's responding to every text, making special trips to hear what she has to say, and in short... still hanging on her every response.
His words are saying one thing, but how convincing is it when his actions are something else because he basically doesn't believe in what he's doing?
Last edited by TimeHeals; 07/07/1001:49 PM.
M-47,W-40,No kids D-filed 5/27/2010 Piecing - 10/21/2010 -=Soon to be banned=-
Your answer...."Yes, I know that it would be a long time if you could ever trust me again and I don't blame you.. However, I really don't want to be in a relationship wondering if you are ever going to trust me again and I certainly don't want to be in one like what we have had since I started to try and show you how much you mean to me. I also want someone who WANTS and chooses to be with me."
I agree with this gist of your message, Gucci. I just think we need to be careful with OIN because he is too focused on verbalization and not focused enough on actions.
Sure, he's saying he understands it isn't going to work like it is, and he's agreeing with her on divorce, but he's responding to every text, making special trips to hear what she has to say, and in short... still hanging on her every response.
His words are saying one thing, but how convincing is it when his actions are something else because he basically doesn't believe in what he's doing?
GREAT point, TH. I agree!
Gooch, how to adjust w/ same strategy, but different tactics that are more ACTION-oriented??
His words are saying one thing, but how convincing is it when his actions are something else because he basically doesn't believe in what he's doing?
The reality shows that it is convincing enough that she has now written him a letter and is now wavering...
This isn't about him playing hard to get. That isn't going to work. What he needs to accomplish here is to let her see, hear and feel that he has heard what she has been telling him. He should be giving her the "I am giving up" message. I won't try anymore message. He can be cordial, he can answer her questions, he can watch the dog once in a while if he chooses.. etc. etc.... He doesn't need to ignore her. Just stick to the message of "I understand what you have been trying to tell me and I realize now that I should give up trying to win you back. I realize that if you say you can't forgive me and you say that it will never work, then YES you are correct, it won't. I now see that. I agree that divorce is our best option now."
While he is giving her this message consistently, he then keeps doing what he is doing now. Go to visit his friends, family and try to give her time all to herself while he keeps busy. He stays backed off and gradually keeps moving toward the direction that SHE says she wanted. The more he moves in her direction in agreement the more she is going to question if she is doing the righ thing. You have to understand that she hasn't dealt with the reality of what happens if HE now wants out since he has made so much effort to change. Secretly she knows that maybe he really does love her and is serious about changing. Now she will get that chance, except that now it isn't only HER choice, but his also. She will now start to think about all the things that SHE has done while he has tried so hard. She couldn't think those things while he was pursuing so hard. All she could think of was how to get away from him. Now that he has given her that, her thoughts may very well change. Which is what he wanted all along and didn't understand how to accomplish. This accomplishes that.
Remember. It is the threat of irrevocable loss that spurs emotions. She is now faced with the threat that maybe she has driven HIM too far. He needed to do this a long time ago. Now she is faced with the reality he has been dealing with for so long. The reality of "is this what I want and what if it IS over?
AND ABOVE ALL.. STOP SNOOPING. NO more checking up on her in any way shape or form. NONE. This is the message that coincides with the giving up. You now show her you don't care to even check up on her. Let it go.
but he's responding to every text, making special trips to hear what she has to say, and in short... still hanging on her every response.
Big difference in responding to every text than in initiating texts. She is the one initiating them. Nothing in the least wrong with responding to texts from her as long as he isn't pressuring or pursuing her. He doesn't need to respond to every text, but it doesn't hurt him if he does respond as long as he follows the guidelines of pressure and pursuit and "I now see that you don't want me to try anymore. I won't try to win you back"....
THAT is his message to get her to FEEL from him. That means he doesn't ask her to go places with him, he doesn't reach out to HER. If she asks for something he can oblige or not oblige. Just don't do it out of spite or anger or getting back at her. He didn't watch the dog for her so we know that he is moving in the right direction. However,. if he isn't doing anything and she asks him to watch the dog and he so chooses, then it is perfectly fine. Just don't go out of your way if you have other plans. And DO keep on making other plans.
