Setting them free

[Swiss Miss]

Wow, you getting that much out of one line was incredible. Can I be "witchy" at times? Yes. Do you have a point? Yes, to some degree. But am I rigidly intolerant, controlling, highly critical, etc.? Not for the most part. And the fact that I brought it up should show I'm at the very least open-minded about his criticism. I am very aware of what my faults are, I took almost all the blame for our marital problems for over a decade (not strong or independent, huh?). It was when I started thinking that maybe it wasn't all me that the real trouble began. I think he thinks that proves his point.

What he means is that I didn't need him enough. I didn't ask his opinion enough or take his advice enough. I wasn't aware this was a big deal for a lot of men, and it was a huge deal for him. He almost always (and I'm not exaggerating) got offended if I didn't take his advice. And the weird part is I did take a lot of it. He had an incredible amount of say in the business my family owns, but it really turned him off if we went in a different direction than he thought we should. And we even did that pretty rarely, because his advice was usually good and we'd hear about it if we didn't. Gosh, that doesn't sound at all strong and independent either.

I do, however, now take men up on offers to get stuff off high shelves, carry stuff, etc., and give them an extra sweet smile when I thank them. If it floats your boat, I can let you carry that box. Although I just listened to my brother-in-law about how to jump my battery and had the car towed when it didn't work, turned out he did it wrong but I didn't want to insist we reread the directions. So this will only get me so far I guess.

As for freaking out if someone goes to the store for five minutes, up until about a year ago he hated me to be out for even an evening so I rarely did it. So maybe that is part of it, I don't know.

I guess the crux of it is that for him to feel loved, he has to feel depended on. And appreciated. And the ways in which I did (and I did do it in many ways, I have the e-mails to prove it!) weren't enough for him. His OW is going through (supposedly) a divorce from what she purports is a complete crazy man, so I'm sure he gets a lot of that from her. If it wasn't so contrary to DBing I would have had some sort of breakdown about how I can't get through life on my own and what am I going to do without him but I don't think he'd buy it anyway. Instead he feels that I never really loved him since I got my life together and going in a positive direction so quickly.

Since my WH complained about this for years, I don't know what your advice is in regards to the A. He went off the deep end in regards to how awful our marriage was but has been relatively consistent in his complaints (somehow I just don't think our marriage was sick and twisted, my favorite justification he gave for ending it). I think a criticism almost always has a grain of truth to it so I'll think on what you said.

[DumpedforMIL]

It's NO-LOSE. You employ the BEST CHANCE you got at getting them back, and, even if it DOESN'T work, you GET YOURSELF back. And THAT is what DB is all about, IMHO.

when i first started here, i was adamant that my first objective was to save the m. even at the cost of losing me.

saving the m was more important to me than myself.

if my m ends in d, no amount of db-ing was going to save me from the grip of depression. even now i have doubts as to whether i will survive.

The beauty of the "letting go" approach is that it is both, simultaneously, the BEST way to regain your own self-esteem and personal authenticity, AND the most effective method of attracting back your spouse.

i like the first part of the sentence.
i know i need to regain my self-esteem back.
the best way to attract my spouse back? i dunno. i think that's what landed me here in the first place.

i could be singing a different tune soon.
i would love to get myself back.
the old me was way nicer and not self-centered.
ever since the d-bomb was dropped, it has been poor me, poor me, poor me.
i have neglected everyone else and it's been all about me.
i care less about everyone else and care only about me.
this is not who i want to be.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

So get to work.

[TimeHeals]

As for freaking out if someone goes to the store for five minutes, up until about a year ago he hated me to be out for even an evening so I rarely did it. So maybe that is part of it, I don't know.

I see. So maybe the problem is that he doesn't feel strong and independent? Maybe this whole "need" thing is him projecting his insecurity?

That's sickeningly codependent. How long were you married and "taking all the blame for your M problems"? Taking all the blame is a form of control too. It's making yourself a fixer.

Maybe it's not that you are strong or independent, but you are--by taking all of the responsibility--a fixer, and he doesn't want to be fixed?

Not that it excuses cheating and such. But... maybe he just didn't want to be married to his Mom?

We have a few fixers her. OIN is a fixer. Truegritter is a recovering fixer. There are a few fixers on the MLC forum.

[pearlharbr]

Couple things:

i think you also have to understand that it takes a long time to wake up and walk away.

No, not for everyone. I discovered BF's affair on Thanksgiving and put him out of the house two months later. He wouldn't end it so I did. And I wish I had done it sooner.

does letting them go and detaching mean accepting that the m is over and not worth salvaging?

that's the vibe i'm getting.
and i thought the whole db forum was to help people save their m's.

Reread Gucci's first post on this thread:

Any thoughts? Anybody looking for help in setting them free?
The faster you do, the faster things progress. Not only for YOU but maybe even for the whole relationship...

I have heard many people say "I don't want to look back and say that I didn't try everything"

Have you really tried setting them free? for good?

[DumpedforMIL]

maybe it's just the format of reading text but the impression i get is that when people detach, they have this "i don't care about him/her, not my problem anymore" view. it comes across as being bitter.
(please don't ban me .. or hate me.)

[TimeHeals]

"i don't care about him/her, not my problem anymore" view. it comes across as being bitter.

If you are bitter, you obviously are focused on them. You can't not be focused on them and be bitter too.

People make their own choices. There's nothing you, I or any of us can do to fool them into making the choices we want them to make... that will stick anyway.

Loving deatchment is knowing that, and knowing that you make YOUR own choices too, and they aren't responsible for the choices you make, so you might as well make the best choices you can.

[Gardener]

Puppy,
Agreed. Though I must say that reading Snodderly in the archives has given me a whole new realistic (though by no means hopeful) insight into my X's sudden downward, runaway spiral.
p.s.
Not the least of which is Snodderly's advice. "Your only choice for healing and renewal is to go on as if she were dead,"

[Swiss Miss]

Well no, I don't think he does feel strong and independent. Interesting. He has horrible self-esteem that he covered up with bravado and thought he was a complete screw-up even though he had a good job, a family, was a responsible citizen, good to his extended family, etc. I didn't believe in projection until all this started but I sure do now. We were married 12 years.

I took all the blame, I think, because I don't mind admitting when I'm wrong (and I often was) and he hates being wrong. I don't think his self-esteem can take it. I fought it but in the end I always allowed him to convince me. The other problem is that the problems I caused in our M were obvious and his were under the surface. With some time and distance it's really obvious what he was doing to contribute. But it wasn't at the time. I have thought he was codependent from almost the beginning of our marriage. But I don't know what I was doing that made him that way, it was honestly pretty much that way from when we met at 17.

I don't think I'm a fixer in almost any way, to be honest. One of the reasons I was happy enough being married to him was that I accepted his faults and worked around them. I thought he was a pretty great guy for the most part, again because his issues were under the surface. I would say he's the fixer, I could make a list as long as my arm about complaints he had with me. Being married to his mom was not one of them, if anything he would have liked more hovering and fussing. So maybe he'd like to be married to his mom? Except she drives him crazy!

I'm well aware of how he'd like me to be, some of it I can do, some of it's a stretch. I made a list of what I did wrong in our marriage, which was really unpleasant, but then I made one about him, which made me feel better! This is all part of the reason that life has been so easy and peaceful and happy since he left. But he was (and still is) a good dad and a good husband for the most part and I miss him. And there was a lot of good.

[TimeHeals]

Hmmm?

I guess how we got here was I didn't buy the idea that somebody leaves somebody because they are emotionally strong and independent (really interdependent).

That part doesn't make sense to me. That part I am not buying.

In the end, you can pick this apart (and it sounds like you have done a lot of that), but his choices are his, and your choices are yours, and if he's going to go outside of his marriage, have an affair, and then try to blame you for the marriage failing, well... let him do that.

You know better, and all you have to feel good about are the choices you make going forward.