I don't want W to think that I think everything is OK between us that I can just do these things...
Thus the reason so many WAW's are cold to the H's touch. If she let you do 1, then you want to move to 2, and if she had let you do that without objection...you would have proceeded to 3. She knows that and she's not ready.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Yesterday was the big day and what a NIGHTMARE it was!
I took this as the opportunity to reconnect with W and create good memories.
For the most part things went well for the past three weeks. We had our moments where W would be cold and short with me but we kept moving forward.
We were both very stressed because we had so much to do and did not think we would have the house ready in time. The heat and the combination of all else going on must had got to us.
Yesterday, I stayed up after returning home from a 12 hour work shift to finish painting and get things ready. W came home form work early and we got to work.
At one point W and I had to go next door and bring over some tables we were borrowing. While there W decided to pick up the phone. If you been following the sitch you may recall over a month ago I used this phone to call OM/OMW and it made W very upset. W went into the phone and seen the same number and got VERY UPSET and after all hell broke loss.
W thought I had dialed the number again but she was mistaken. She is looking at the same log as she had over a month that we had already discussed. So now I am being blamed for something I already took the blame for.
W then started to bring up the whole OM/OMW situation. I told W that I do no communicate with either of them, W doe snot believe me she thinks I am still talking to OMW (I am not). I started to call W out on some things that she denied but I gave her the facts and not my resources, W still denied.
W then threatened to cancel the party, I told her "If that's what you want to do" W pretended to txt her father (she did this a few times actually) W would pretend to txt FIL then go back to cleaning so I would say "Don't worry about the mess I will get to it in a little bit" but she would carry on cleaning.
W started to play word games "That is why I always asked what do YOU want" when we are deciding on things because when she leaves I can't say "but I thought we were improving our home together" This is also foolishness because W picked out and purchased many things for the home without my opinion.
I called W out on the way she spoke to me and this facade she is putting on for her family. W then claimed her family already knew she was leaving me and that they are just being respectful. I told W that I cannot see her family carry on pretending as if things are good like that and called her out on it.
W then tried to proof her point by throwing and shattering a vase we were given as a gift for our wedding day that was signed by all our guest. We just baked it a few days ago so we could preserve the signature. She took it even further and went out to our living room and took a picture of us off our shelf and ripped it into pieces. W then started to dig into the past 10 years and everything I have ever done wrong to her.
I admit in the heat of the moment I lashed back, but always with the mindset of I am working on this marriage and will continue to do so with or without her help.
I cannot recall everything we said and maybe I should had just stopped and walked away. I almost left the house a few times but I knew she did not cancel the party and there was still work to do and so I finished the work.
W said things like "too little too late" , "go make someone else happy" , "Life is unfair and you'll learn that soon" , "your just wasting your time, this marriage is nothing" you name it she said it.
Some how it turned into a brief R talk.
Things settled down we got back to work, I was very upset with the broken items. As we were cleaning W tells me "My family does not know but my dad knows EVERYTHING, I just asked him out of respect don't tell the family" then W went on to quote that FIL said "It's you decision just remember when you wake up beside that person 30 years from now and you look back will you be happy" or something clever along those lines. W and I had got into it about FIL giving advice based on her divorce experience.
Just before the party started we got into an exchange again and I told W "I will NOT be a doormat for you to walk all over" W just responded as typical "OH your right, I am the one who always does wrong, just like in the past 10 years so today is no different"
Things settled down again, people started to show up, W throw wedding ring on and the show began. W is now all smiles. We got many great comments on how beautiful our home is ect...FIL brought US a house warming gift which I found very odd seeing that W is leaving the house. FIL also made the comment "I have to come back over and redo that wall for you guys, I did a terrible job patching that up"
Rest of the night went well but stupid me upset about earlier made some dump comments to W such as "OK people are showing up, do I pretend we are married or divorced."
There were a few times where I tried to be husband like and W got upset or felt uncomfortable and I said "I am still your husband" and W replied "Yes your my husband but that is just a title right now"
I said and did somethings that go against the DB approach. W was telling me how validating her feeling are annoying to her.
I started to lay things out there. Things that might be considered pursuit but its is what she knows and understands. I also told her that we should sit down and have a talk, W said we can but not right now.
Also somewhere in there I said "I married you for better or for worse not until someone better comes along" I also said (probably pursuing) "For 10 years you say I treated you terribly and we made it this far" W said "Yes, that was a mistake and I thought you would change, waste of my fathers money" I replied "We were married 4 months when you decided you had enough and told me you were leaving because things remained the same and then change occurred" W just said "too little too late"
Last night and this morning we had better interactions. I know DB is about what works and GAL. What do you do when you feel like some pursuit actually works? I thought what I was doing was working but W called me out on some of it and called it annoying.
I need to rethink my approach and determine how I shall proceed. I still want to save this marriage.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
W then tried to proof her point by throwing and shattering a vase we were given as a gift for our wedding day that was signed by all our guest. We just baked it a few days ago so we could preserve the signature. She took it even further and went out to our living room and took a picture of us off our shelf and ripped it into pieces.
From this point on, OIN, by putting up with all of that and going ahead with the party, you just told her you "WILL be a doormat for her to talk all over," I'm afraid. Your speeches to her are great, but by putting up with her poor BEHAVIOR, you simply ENABLE it.
My jaw just dropped reading your post, when I saw that you went ahead with everything after what she pulled. Wow.
I went through with the party not for my W sake but because it was also a house warming party so it did benefit me as well. Also me calling her family and telling them no party validates what W says about me and if W called she would tell them I wanted to cancel and make me out to be the villain. Also it is my W I have an issue with not her family, they love me and I enjoy them.
Also this morning W was watching TV and seen commercial for a new mop/vacuum in one and W asked "I know we have a lot swifters but do you think that would work for the floors?" and I replied in a calm tone "I'm not sure what kind of floors you have" W just shook her head and turned back to face the TV.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Being snarky and rude is one thing but becoming violent (throwing glass) and destroying property (tearing up photos) is something different. IMO you should have called and cancelled the party and if they asked why call your W out on her behavior.
"I am sorry but I have decided to cancel the party. W has destroyed property and endangered me by throwing glass and today is not a good day for a celebration"
Period.
Considering your W didn't even want YOUR family at the party yet asked you to bust your ass getting the house ready for HER family ONLY.
Your W is a typical WAS. Don't indulge her further like you did this morning with the comment about the mop and her floors. All you are doing is fueling this negative dynamic.
she has the other place ready, ask her to leave, seriously she won't know what she has in you until you're gone and YOU need to be the one that makes that decision instead of allowing all of this to be her decision.
Is this really the person you want to live with and be with?
Someone who flakes out every other hour/every other day and then totally forgets about what they've done?
She smashed personal property, ripped pictures, totally rejects you regularly, makes you jump through hoops to prove yourself and you continue to kiss her ass during this entire process.
I get it, you want to stand up for your marriage, you want to prove your honor and integrity in this process, show you've changed, etc.
But seriously, all you're showing is that you're a punching bag, whenever she gets angry, goes batshitcrazy, you'll be there to clean up the mess, take the hit and brush it off like nothing happened and nobody is that selfless, these things did happen and they'll continue to happen until you stand up for yourself and admit to yourself that this kind of treatment is not good enough, you're settling for crap behavior and a woman can't love a man she can't respect and your wife doesn't respect you at all and the proof of this is in all of these childish, disrespectful, hurtful actions she commits against you to hurt you because she knows you love her and will do anything to not lose her - that last part she knows, you will do anything not to lose her and guess what, she can't respect that, no one could. And because she can't respect you, she definitely can't love you and she'll definitely continue to treat you poorly, feed you this crap behavior and you'll continue to eat it until you realize it tastes like crap.
Give her the WAS speech.
I know for you it will be the hardest thing to do because its counter intuitive, you don't want to lose her yet holding on to her the way you do is not working, that's the reality of your situation and you're efforts aren't working, if anything she's getting worse, not better.
Tell her you've had enough, her behavior before/during the party, smashing property, ripping pictures, all these attempts to hurt you, you've had enough of all of it. You tried your best showing her that you can be loving, caring, attentive, you took her poor actions and abuse and kept showing her that you will love her despite her crap behavior and it isn't working for you anymore, if she is really that unhappy with you, if she really doesn't love you anymore, if this is the kind of life you can expect to have with someone who doesn't want to commit 110% wholeheartedly to rebuilding your marriage and relationship into something different and better then this isn't what you want because what you want matters as well, it isn't all about her, if a relationship isn't mutually beneficial and the people involved aren't going to do what's right to make it better then it's time to call "GAME OVER" and let her go so that you can move on with your life. She has her own place, tell her that you will offer to help her pack and move her stuff and you will get a lawyer and proceed with filing for divorce.
Either that or prepare for this to continue happening until she's ready to call "GAME OVER".
You didn't wake up until she dropped the bomb to begin with, that's when fear of loss and crisis prompted you to action, maybe it's time you gave her the same thing. In fact, I'll go as far to say that until you do this, nothing in your situation will change. Let her go and mean it, if you want her to come back with the right attitude.
Tell her you've had enough, her behavior before/during the party, smashing property, ripping pictures, all these attempts to hurt you, you've had enough of all of it. You tried your best showing her that you can be loving, caring, attentive, you took her poor actions and abuse and kept showing her that you will love her despite her crap behavior and it isn't working for you anymore, if she is really that unhappy with you, if she really doesn't love you anymore, if this is the kind of life you can expect to have with someone who doesn't want to commit 110% wholeheartedly to rebuilding your marriage and relationship into something different and better then this isn't what you want because what you want matters as well, it isn't all about her, if a relationship isn't mutually beneficial and the people involved aren't going to do what's right to make it better then it's time to call "GAME OVER" and let her go so that you can move on with your life. She has her own place, tell her that you will offer to help her pack and move her stuff and you will get a lawyer and proceed with filing for divorce.
Either that or prepare for this to continue happening until she's ready to call "GAME OVER".
You didn't wake up until she dropped the bomb to begin with, that's when fear of loss and crisis prompted you to action, maybe it's time you gave her the same thing. In fact, I'll go as far to say that until you do this, nothing in your situation will change. Let her go and mean it, if you want her to come back with the right attitude.
Quoted because it deserved repeating and so you can read it again.
she has the other place ready, ask her to leave, seriously she won't know what she has in you until you're gone and YOU need to be the one that makes that decision instead of allowing all of this to be her decision.
Is this really the person you want to live with and be with?
Someone who flakes out every other hour/every other day and then totally forgets about what they've done?
She smashed personal property, ripped pictures, totally rejects you regularly, makes you jump through hoops to prove yourself and you continue to kiss her ass during this entire process.
I get it, you want to stand up for your marriage, you want to prove your honor and integrity in this process, show you've changed, etc.
But seriously, all you're showing is that you're a punching bag, whenever she gets angry, goes batshitcrazy, you'll be there to clean up the mess, take the hit and brush it off like nothing happened and nobody is that selfless, these things did happen and they'll continue to happen until you stand up for yourself and admit to yourself that this kind of treatment is not good enough, you're settling for crap behavior and a woman can't love a man she can't respect and your wife doesn't respect you at all and the proof of this is in all of these childish, disrespectful, hurtful actions she commits against you to hurt you because she knows you love her and will do anything to not lose her - that last part she knows, you will do anything not to lose her and guess what, she can't respect that, no one could. And because she can't respect you, she definitely can't love you and she'll definitely continue to treat you poorly, feed you this crap behavior and you'll continue to eat it until you realize it tastes like crap.
Give her the WAS speech.
I know for you it will be the hardest thing to do because its counter intuitive, you don't want to lose her yet holding on to her the way you do is not working, that's the reality of your situation and you're efforts aren't working, if anything she's getting worse, not better.
Tell her you've had enough, her behavior before/during the party, smashing property, ripping pictures, all these attempts to hurt you, you've had enough of all of it. You tried your best showing her that you can be loving, caring, attentive, you took her poor actions and abuse and kept showing her that you will love her despite her crap behavior and it isn't working for you anymore, if she is really that unhappy with you, if she really doesn't love you anymore, if this is the kind of life you can expect to have with someone who doesn't want to commit 110% wholeheartedly to rebuilding your marriage and relationship into something different and better then this isn't what you want because what you want matters as well, it isn't all about her, if a relationship isn't mutually beneficial and the people involved aren't going to do what's right to make it better then it's time to call "GAME OVER" and let her go so that you can move on with your life. She has her own place, tell her that you will offer to help her pack and move her stuff and you will get a lawyer and proceed with filing for divorce.
Either that or prepare for this to continue happening until she's ready to call "GAME OVER".
You didn't wake up until she dropped the bomb to begin with, that's when fear of loss and crisis prompted you to action, maybe it's time you gave her the same thing. In fact, I'll go as far to say that until you do this, nothing in your situation will change. Let her go and mean it, if you want her to come back with the right attitude.
OK help me out here. I thought what I was doing was working and for the most part it seemed to until yesterday.
Today we had some pleasant exchanges and I decided to pursue her and it backfired.
I asked "Would it be possible to sit down and talk about possibilities?"
and W responded "I don't think it is going to work"
I replied and asked "Do you want it to work?"
W said "Does not matter if I want it to or not it just won't" W then went on to say "I can never forgive you or forget what you done and I can't ever be happy with you"
I said "There is a difference between not wanting it to work and don't think it is going to work. I did not ever think we would be in this situation but here we are"
W then said "I am annoyed and aggravated by being here, I am not happy" I said "If there is a the slightest bit of want then that is something we can build on." W said "NO"
I said to W "Walking out the door and leaving this house and our marriage might bring short term happiness but will not make either one of us happy long term"
W said "Maybe your right but I am not thinking about the long term right now" I then asked W "If you honestly do not want to spend the remainder of your life with me in it look me in my eyes and say do"
W refused to reply or even look at me" I then said "If that is what you truly want, a divorce" W looked at me and said "I do want a divorce" and I said "and to spend your life without me?"
W replied "I can't tell you want I want after that" I said to W "I do not thing of a future beyond this marriage, I never had" W said "Well that is your problem" I then replied "Tell me that you don't want to spend your life with me" W looked at me and then turned away....
OK so there it was and all it's pursuing glory.
I need help. Yes I want our marriage to work out. W still not willing to work on it.
W does NOT have a home to move into right now and may not for another couple months. up till yesterday for a 4 week span W said nothing about leaving she spoke as if she was willing to stay and eventually work it out.
I need help on "moving on" without being an a,ss. What scripts do I use without being a jerk. Can I give the WAW speech via letter as opposed to telling her face to face? I know she wont listen and she probably wont read it either but it's a shot.
It sucks because what she is doing now I have done before (breaking things around the home that had more than monetary value). So she could use that as a script against anything I say.
I am confused at the moment.
Also I cannot make her leave, she is co-owner of the home, and as stated in the past We own a side by side duplex and rent the other side out to my parents, so I am not leaving.
Last edited by OfficerInNeed; 06/28/1002:05 AM.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Robx gave you the script, just above. You're not confused; you're just unwilling. If you're worried more about coming across like a "jerk" or an "ass" than you are about your own happiness and emotional health, then you're just not getting it.
