1000 ships, nah, I don't beat a dead horse, in fact, someone brought this thread back. If people will read my posts, I am very helpful with new posters. I am very sensitive to their situation, and I offer advice to help.
I agree. Most of your adviced is very helpful and focused on the LBS which is good.
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My post was designed for someone who has been doing the same things year after year and nothing changes. In my view, that is not standing, that is someone who is stuck. I am not opposed to standing, I think that just about everyone should do it. I just feel that after a while, it gets to the point where you don't move forward with your life.
Every one becomes stuck at some point in time throughout this. Neither the LBS or the MLC'er just breezes through this. It's a part of the process. How long depends upon the person.
How long is too long? It's different for everyone. It's personal.
Yes, it makes no sense to do the same things over and over again. That is stuck and not healthy.
We are all different. We all have a little different spin on things based upon our own experience.
I know it's not my place to tell a person when to move on. Especially when all I really have to go on are little paragraphs posted here and there. Given the fact that mlc can last for years and or a lifetime, how long is too long?
There are NO clear answers here, only OPINIONS and personal choices that will always differ.
It's all about personal choice and control and this is where I sort of scratch my head whenever this discussion gets resurrected.
It's not our place to impose our opinions on such a personal and important choice.
That being when to move on.
By all means help them if they are stuck, but to tell them to move on. That's their choice and it's totally out of our control.
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I will sum it up like this. My definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.
I get what you're saying and I agree one hundred percent.
Doesn't the same apply by telling someone over and over to move on and expecting them to listen.
In fairness, braveheart, you didn't bring this topic back to the top, I just couldn't resist giving you a hard time.
Well, I for one want to say thank you Braveheart. I do not agree with telling people who are mostly on here looking for hope that the statistics are unfavorable for "success" as they currently define it. I think those stats are bunk... pure and simple. Not saying you can't add, darling, just that it's unscientific at best as there are absolutely no controls (and probably could never be any)
That being said... thank you for this thread because although I was "getting it" about moving on and I certainly have not been standing still - I have been learning and growing and detaching... you did light a fire under me to go back to college and finish my degree. I just re-read this thread and it lit a fire in my heart to take the THREE classes I need to finish my degree and move on to something else in my life. (which has been on hold for 5 years now while I took care of my step children)
And if nothing else comes out of it... at least be happy you helped push one person past their comfort zone and into growth today.
BH, I get what you are saying. I'm there. I've only been here for a short time, but I've been in a bad M for a lot longer. I'd been doing my version of standing for more than 2 years. I was doing most of it wrong...lol... but I was fighting. I've recently come to the realization my standing was still trying to control the sitch.
We WILL stay married & we WILL be happy, even if it kills us!!!
Um. Yeah.
I could never tell someone they are standing too long. That is a very personal & painful decision. Like fig said, you stand for the M, you stand for the MLCer, and then all of a sudden you realize you are standing for you. Powerful stuff.
I won't even touch upon whether or not I thought the verbage & the tone was snarky. We all know I have a terrible track record for that. I will say that people will see what they want to see. If they want to see hope for a marriage, they will find it. If they want to see a dismal outlook for a save, then they will find that, too. I can't give anybody numbers to prove my point--people will find the info they are looking for in them.
I do want to touch upon a comment you made about your W not being worthy of forgiveness.
You are right, her actions were heinous. I can't imagine walking away from my children.
That said...your kids are already going to have enough issues coming to grips with this as they get older--your holding onto to the anger isn't going to help them any.
Forgiveness isn't about the other person. Your forgiving her isn't about her. It's all about you. Holding onto any amount of anger or hostility is only hurting you. Trust me. The other person just doesn't care. Pretty soon that anger starts to grow, even if you don't realize it. It becomes a shadow that darkens parts of your life that deserve the time & space to grow freely.
By forgiving someone, let's say an abusive exboyfriend of mine (just to get the focus off of you so you don't feel I'm attacking you)...
I was angry with him for such a long time. I would never forgive him. Or I would forgive, but I'd never forget!! Which is really the same as not forgiving him. How dare he do that to me. I didn't deserve that. I'd make the next man pay just because he didn't. Even when I wasn't consciously thinking it, it was still there.
My anger towards him wasn't hurting him. It was hurting me. Still. He was still winning.
By forgiving him, and more importantly--forgiving myself, I gave myself permission to let it go. I wasn't saying in any way, shape, or form that it was okay to leave bruises on me, or to say the things he did to me. It's not okay. It's still not okay to do that to anyone. I'm just not making either of us pay for it anymore.
I read a quote in a book about how people need to love like they have never been hurt before because we color everything we have now with the hurt and fear from our pasts. We become so focused not getting hurt again that we miss out on the joys that today brings.
Your kids will be better for it because they won't grow up with that negative aspect of their lives--that their mother abandoned them. Even if you say it so she looks as guilty as she is, that she left two beautiful children, all they are going to hear is "your mother left you." Kids fill in the blanks quickly & personalize nearly everything. Soon they will feel that they did something wrong & that they weren't good enough for their mommy to stay. Even though that is so not the truth.
Can you see where I'm going? Not understanding why she did it? Sure. Not agreeing with it? Absolutely. But I beg you to please, somehow, find a way to forgive her. Get rid of that negative view and keep it far away from the kids. Let them grow up knowing just how incredible they are, shower them with all the praise they deserve. Don't even mention her. They will figure it out eventually, they don't need any help.
And besides, when you purge that from your heart, you will have even more room to feel love for that wonderful woman who is in your life. I'll bet she'd like that very much.
Don't forgive her for her, forgive her for yourself, your kids & every future relationship you will have. You deserve it. They deserve it.
Stop letting her win.
(((blessings on the new happiness you've found)))
formerly known as "shelbel" Me 40, stbxh 40 DSs 9, 7 & 3 M9, T10 Stbxh is a diagnosed bipolar & an addict. The end.
Marked and Healed, CONGRATS on getting your degree!! FANTASTIC!! That is what I call moving forward!! You keep growing and good things will happen for you, maybe not in the way you would hope, but they will!! You are a great example for those who are stuck!!!
We become so focused not getting hurt again that we miss out on the joys that today brings.
Bam.
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We become so focused not getting hurt again that we miss out on the joys that today brings.
BAM!
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WE BECOME SO FOCUSED (on) NOT GETTING HURT AGAIN THAT WE MISS OUT ON THE JOYS THAT TODAY BRINGS!
That's a pretty IMPORTANT lesson...one that even people I know well and have moved on and do well for themselves suffer from. That fear...and old buttons.
PS - if it stings...even a little...you know what to do.
Last edited by Jack_Three_Beans; 06/18/1011:48 PM. Reason: edit for the ps. :)
Experience is a brutal teacher, but you learn. My God, do you learn. - C.S. Lewis
Life is usually all about how you handle Plan B. - Jack3Beans
Listen without defending; Speak without offending - FaithinAK
This is a very good topic and I would like to share my thoughts. Standing is truly a personnel decision. Nobody could have helped me see or understand when the time was right for me to walk away.
At first, I found myself chasing my h and so desperately trying to get him back. Then I found Db'ing and realized I was doing it all wrong and then I had all the setbacks and struggling with what should I do and finding my balance.
Then the deep depression set-in for me and I found it hard to manage the day to day. During this time I lost 2 jobs in a matter of a year. I struggled financially, emotionally, physically you name it, I had much on my plate. All while others were saying D him get rid of him etc. Well, I couldn't hardly deal with him let alone take care of myself and my kids.
Then I started to work on myself. Started working out, focusing my time on the kids. Then lost another job and the house. Now this was not a bad thing for me, because it forced me out of the depressed environment I was in and allowed me to focus on what was important to me and my future.
During all this time my h was involved with my life. He was coming around acting like we were h and w but just not sleeping in our home. We were celebrating holidays our anniversaries etc. In many ways my h kept me stuck, since it seemed to me he was trying to work through his issues and was a major part of my life and the kids.
Once I was free from the depression I could see clearly and realized I wanted more for my life. It was at this time that I let my h know that I was done, but I had to make that decision on my own. Nobody could have led me to that decision.
Yes, I stood for over 3 years, but I didn't expect that to happen. With all that I had going on with loosing jobs, the house, major depression, this journey took me awhile to complete. It needs to be when YOU are ready.
I do believe amazing things can happen though. As I gave up and moved on, in walks my h wanting to reconcile.
I don't think it was unhealthy for me to stand for so long. I do look around though and say wow I wasted a lot of time waiting, but that had to come from me nobody else.
Time has a way of slipping away. I think that is what happened for me. Only you can make the decision of when to move on.
Me 50 H 42 S 22 S 9 D 7 M 12 T 17 H moved out 8/2006 H moved home 1/2007 for 3 weeks H moved home 5/2011 for good
"Learn from yesterday ~ Live for today ~ And hope for tomorrow"
