Standing, When DB'ing becomes unhealthy

[Jack_Three_Beans]

I do believe there are people here and elsewhere who stand longer than they should. Longer than what is healthy.

I know I feel this way. I DO agree with aspects of Braveheart's , our idea's are NOT that different.

I just do not see it as my place to decide when someone should not stand or how long IS too long...conversely...and perhaps hypocritically I'll tell someone that 2 months is too short a time. However, that is more of defense of DBing, and the idea that the person who gave it two months DID NOT in fact DB.

I also have a problem with being able to say...GENERALLY...that there are people here who stood too long...but we lack the courage to say that directly to them? We hide behind generalizations...but BUT...I am glad that we do not actually tell a person directly to give up hope. How dare we do that.

Even I am not THAT callous, and you know what? It is not my place, nor should it be anyone elses.

A person I feel is stuck? I'll try to help NOT by saying, "Time is up! You need to go date now, your husband is boinking the seceratry and the guy in PR." But with themselves. A Person who is CAPABLE of living without their spouse is the person who is ABLE to move on without regrets.

What is the reality of 'standing'? It is different for you as it is for me, because MY perception and MY experience forms MY reality. Just as yours does for you.

So my reality of standing differs from Cat's, Machs, Grits, trapts, Brooklyns, BrandNewDays, Bravehearts...ALL different.

Braveheart is not bitter...I am not sure he has totally forgiven his X...but then I'm not sure I have 100% forgiven my wife at times based upon what I write I am sure that many of you wonder that as well. I'd say it is mostly most forgiven...but talking about the past always has ramnifications for me as well.

[figgeroni]

I am just going to throw something out there

about standing

I started standing for my marriage and all that entailed

then

I started getting some help and looking at all the things I needed to improve on
and
work on
and
get back to

so I started working and learning and doing and my stance changed from standing for my marriage
to
standing for me
who I was
who I was meant to be

part of who I am is someone who believes in the truth and commitment and love and family

so

I was standing for me
which meant standing for marriage and commitment (not just mine)

then
I found out that my ex is a sociopath
I couldn't stand for a marriage with someone who was hurting my children, myself, themselves and who was NEVER going to get better

so

I kept standing for myself
my family
marriage
commitment

but I let go of my ex and all that he had said he was but wasn't

i met someone else
someone amazing and wonderful, generous and protective, strong and gentle, intelligent and funny

he knew and knows who he is
and
I know who I am

I never stopped standing

I just started standing for me
what was good for me
important for me
was in keeping with who I was and am at my core!!!

standing isn't to win your spouse back
standing is who you are at your core


there are many people who spout standing and have wicked nicknames for their exes, or who get their "feel goods" from outside instead of in

there are people who stand forever...not in the hopes of winning someone back but because of the person they are

there are people that don't even get out of the chair
they flash into a new relationship like changing socks

statistics don't matter when you are being true to who you are
1% or 100%...shouldn't matter
you aren't who you are for results

you are who you are because you must be

[braveheart]

I think its kinda funny that some on here call me; callous, insensitive, not caring about other's feelings, mean, etc. I ask this question; If you really feel that way about me, what keeps you standing for someone who has REALLY hurt you? I am blunt and I do look at things from a different perspective. As for my life, I am not bitter, have I forgiven my XW? No, and I never will. Why? Because she left our 2 children, she has nothing to do with them. IMO she is not worthy of forgiveness. I am spiritual, God put someone wonderful in my life, I focus my attention on her now, not my XW. Sorry if that doesn't go along with some of your beliefs or ideas. As I have said time and again, if you want to stand forever, go for it, but if you are doing it for years and years with no progress, you are wasting your life.

[Truegritter]

you aren't who you are for results

you are who you are because you must be

This is what I believe. Thanks fig.

Sorry if that doesn't go along with some of your beliefs or ideas.

That's ok. I'm not sure I believe what you're preaching but you certainly have sparked a discussion!

BH this is a small population of some of the most amazing people.

Why? How many people around you could you have such a discussion?

My friend (my I call you that?) I know you have been here a while and you are still here. Why? Because you care? There is part of you that has to be here.

My life is completely different from being here.

I for one am glad you are still here. There has been some good sh!t said here.

Bring your bad a$$ back in here.

Respectfully

Grit

[Upside]

This is a great topic to discuss here. It is especially appropriate for me since I am on of those that has stood for 3-4 years and recently gave up...and just for the record, I do wonder how I got here because this was never part of my plan.

First let me say that I did what I had to do for ME! Not only does it take me a long time to process everything but it didn't help that my H just couldn't make up his mind. This was my 2nd marriage after my first H had his own crisis. I never wanted the first divorce especially since we had 2 babies at the time. Six years after my first H left me, I found a man that I thought was the opposite of my first H because he would have done ANYTHING in the world for me. I thought he would never leave me...well, as soon as his D graduated from high school, he was pretty much out the door. I kept thinking that my H would eventually "get it" and come home. He kept talking like he was figuring things out and said he wanted to come home but could never pull the trigger (as the C said). I think maybe my H has more issues than just MLC going on so that is why he couldn't let himself come back. I know my H does love me and on some level wants the marriage.

If you would have asked me in the beginning if I would have been standing for the M after 1 year, 2 years, 3 years...I would have said no way in he11! Don't get me wrong, I wanted the marriage to work but I wasn't prepared to give it this long. Life just sort of happened and in the interim, we did have some happy moments together...however those moments when they were just at his convenience eventually didn't work for me.

IMO, it would be unhealthy for me to continue with my H making no real progress toward moving home. Who knows what the futures holds but for right now, I'm no longer waiting around for my H to figure out what he wants. My life is mine and I have determined that I am better off alone than with a man who does not appreciate me to the fullest.

Now that being said, I remember when I first got here and seing the statistic somewhere that 80% come back to less than 1% come back. Does it really matter? When we come here, we are just trying to heal and sort everything out. Most people who come here are the committed type and want to stand for their marriage. The hard part is that marriage takes two and coming here, we eventually learn we have no control over the other person. This place helps us put everything in so the perspective that we need to get us through the day...through the moment.

I don't think that braveheart's skepticism is a bad thing is small doess. After all, we do need to see both sides of the spectrum.

[Walking]

Fig - that is perhaps the most profound post I've ever read here.

standing is who you are at your core

That's it.

It's amazing that it takes such a long, heartbreaking, yet empowering journey to understand that.

Beautifully said - that post is almost poetry.

[braveheart]

Truegritter, thanks for your comments. Its very true that we as people often do not agree, but that should not stop any of us in expressing our beliefs. Often times people cannot accept people's thoughts and opinions if they differ from their own. I may not agree with you, but I do respect your point of view.

[1000ships]

I personally really like the whole "standing evolves as it moves forward" thing.

Marked and Healed, the problem with "standing and evolving" thing is that the vast majority of the time, this doesn't happen.

So what you are saying is that she’s right. Of course things don’t always happen that way. The point is that they can and they do, should people not Stand because they might not do it well? And many here have found the opposite to be true—for many people it does happen that the LBS evolves. You may perceive an LBS as not having grown, but the appropriate indicator is how an LBS feels.

Please give me the names of the people on this board that have stood for 4 or 5 years and have had restored marriages.

Well, there is me and what about BND.

Braveheart, you have always been one of my favourite posters. And I am certain that you are not bitter. People are afraid to face the tough questions and when you pose them, their protection is to perceive you as a bitter. You’re likely used to it since it’s been that way since you came to the boards.

But sometimes the questions do not change once they have been answered over and over…and over again. I know, there are new people who need them. But this one about the reconciled marriages…come on! You keep asking and people keep answering and there has been a stickied thread about them for a few years. The horse is dead, stop beating it.

It feels like you dismiss the answers that people are giving.

[braveheart]

1000 ships, nah, I don't beat a dead horse, in fact, someone brought this thread back. If people will read my posts, I am very helpful with new posters. I am very sensitive to their situation, and I offer advice to help. My post was designed for someone who has been doing the same things year after year and nothing changes. In my view, that is not standing, that is someone who is stuck. I am not opposed to standing, I think that just about everyone should do it. I just feel that after a while, it gets to the point where you don't move forward with your life. Its those types of people who end up bitter, because they have spent so much time waiting and their spouses didn't come back. 1000 Ships, I will sum it up like this. My definition of stupid is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result.

[1000ships]

Braveheart,

Well I've always thought you were sensitive and empathetic. People need to face their fears.

As for the dead horse, it's not the thread or topic. Those are good. In the first post I wrote on this thread I talked about Standing and the dangers.


For me the dead horse is the continual question about naming DBers who have reconciled marriages.

As for you addressing this topic to the stuck deniars, yes I think we have seen that there are some and perhaps a lot. What makes me shriek is when you use absolute modifers and blanket generalizations to imply that any Stander after a certain period of time is stuck in denial and/or not growing.

It is true of some and not true of others...in the same way that it is true that some MLCers return and some do not.

Tough the it is a priority and thus primary goal to help LBSs grow and choose personal joy, realizing they are responsible for their own life and success. But for me it is also a goal to hel Standers reconcile their marriage, thereby someday improving those statistics you talk about.

Think of it this way: Suppose that the success rate of in vitro fertilization in the past 5 years was 40% (made up number)
But over only the past year it was 70%.

Technology changed and this so did the stats.

But Braveheart, you really are awesome!