Standing, When DB'ing becomes unhealthy

[punkin]

JTB,

Your words of wisdom have restored my faith. I've had a bad couple of days, mainly just missing him so badly. Yes, only I can determine when I have given it my best shot, and it's time to stand down. I love my husband with all my heart, but, for myself, I know that I will not be one to wait years. This is his 2nd affair in 20 years. I stood through the first one. It's kind of like living through cancer and then, it returns with a vengence. I don't know if I have the stamina to keep up. I'm not setting a date, but the time will come for me sooner rather than later, and it won't be measured in years. That is not because I don't love my husband, because I do with all my heart, but because I owe it to my family and to myself to say WHEN.

[iluvme55]

Getting down to the power of God B/H....I am sure you know the story of Saul.....christian killer man, woman, anyone who spoke of Jesus was put to death...feared by all.....but Jesus appeared to him on the road of Damascus and asked him why do you persecute me.......this guy got scared out of his mind and he after 3 days returned as Paul....one of the great authors of the bible......if God can do this to Saul ......then he can chg people's hearts.....that is my view of God the father......stronger than anyone or anything.....and he does change people all the time .....they will eventually listen to him and yes he gives us free will, but my question to you is, do you think God does not have this power to bring some of us to our senses???? What would of happened if you would of kept praying for your wife? Maybe she would of come back home....IF YOU WOULD OF KEPT PRAYING....just my thought......did you NEVER ask yourself that question WHAT IF? I am happy with my life right now, God is my provider not my husband....and I like how I have grown with God the best thing that has ever happened to me is knowing him as I do now....wouldnt trade it for anything.....I love the relationship I have with him now....from this broken mess this is what I have gotten from it....ttyl on F/B

[Marked&Healed]

Thanks JTB for throwing your two cents in.
BH I have read much of your posts and I truly appreciate your insight. I understand your point, and the caveat I made was specifically that people have got to change and grow. That's the whole part about becoming fulfilled and complete that we all need to get.

However, and I say this with all love, your statistics stink. I'm not saying they're not accurate. I'm saying that even I, an eternal optimist, felt a moment of heart fluttering when I read those stats. For a split second, I thought of giving up... not cool. I'm not saying that we should not be realistic, but rather that we should not influence others negatively if we can help it. Pull the wool over our eyes? Maybe, but when we LOS (I decided I don't like LBS - I'm using Left Out Spouses instead) - are so fragile, we don't need to hear that we have only a 1% chance of success. Let's face it, 1% is a heck of a lot better than 0%.

In those numbers you quoted, several things are left out - because we don't have this info. How many of those people just dropped off the boards, how many dropped out of standing before the potential positive outcome came about? How many became bitter, didn't move on, didn't learn and grow? How many were just too interested in teaching their MLCer lessons or getting back at them rather than forgiving from the heart and building a new life together?

I admit, I have only been reading about MLC for two and a half months, I'm no expert. In that time, I've not even finished one book. I'm reading four books at a time, and am almost done with them all. I've highlighted, gone to other sources, cross referenced, and gone to the boards with questions and I'm still learning. However, one undercurrent I have found everywhere is this: (warning, this is my own opinion) - I believe that given the perfect inputs the majority of MLCers will return to the marriage.

Those inputs are:
1. The MLCer coming to terms with what they did and who they are (the biggest variable) - one who "makes it through the tunnel."
2. A LOS who is forgiving, caring, loving and kind and willing to listen to their spouse with love and not throw anything back at them for punishment
3. A LOS who goes through their own transition and truly grows and becomes a complete person.
4. A willingness to go together into piecing knowing it will be harder than they will imagine and an agreement not to run (as MLCers have already shown a propensity to run)
5. TIME

[braveheart]

Folks, I really do not mean to rain on anyone's parade, but as I have said before, we can slice this up anyway we want to, but most of these people do not come back. If any of you wish to stand forever, that's your right. If you want to believe most of these people come back, by all means believe that. I am a numbers person and have been here long enough to have different beliefs. Sorry they don't match some of yours. Likemenow, I did a lot praying during my time of separation, I was confused, scared, worried, just like everyone else. Low and behold, the Lord put someone wonderful in my life, much better than my XW. Guess what, if I had laid on my tail and "stood" for 4 years while she did what she wanted, I would have been ALL ALONE. You need to think about that, remember, God helps them who help themselves.

[ericmsant2]

BH

Folks, I really do not mean to rain on anyone's parade,

I wanted to believe this I really did…..BUT then you said this…..

but as I have said before, we can slice this up anyway we want to, but most of these people do not come back.

When did you get a crystal ball?

I am sorry to say BH but this is the second time I have seen you post somewhat of a negative view to the people on this board. The people that are in pain. The people that are reaching for hope. The people who truly love their spouses and are doing everything in their power to save their M.

I understand and respect that you are entitled to your opinion but I do not agree with your approach. I don’t know you from a hole in the wall and you do not know me. I am not aware of your sitch. I can honestly say that when I read your post the sense I get is that you have never completely healed from your D and although I do not know you, I am so sorry for this. I truly am. I suspect that your W did a number on you (as mine is doing to me). I do not know if you lost your kids in your D, if you lost your house, I have no idea. Maybe it is me….but I would have thought you would have wanted to help people on these boards deal with their pain….Help people get thru this sh*tty time in their life. Help people by NOT removing the small sliver of hope that they have and so cling on to until such time that THEY decide to move on. I am sorry you seem really angry.

You mentioned that you prayed a lot. I am glad for this. Many here have and continue to. Maybe you should pray for forgiveness, healing, and compassion. Based on your post it appears that you have been blessed with a new R. I am happy for you. I am.

I have to say, that you throwing out some statistic that one would need to spend hours sorting thru to confirm the validity of, is …well….IMO, irresponsible. Totally irresponsible. May I ask; would have liked to read this while you were standing? Would you have “felt” better, in those times that you were probably crying and hurt; if someone posted some stat like this? Be honest with yourself – would you. I suspect not. Your angry still – I get it. You may think that you are helping someone but really are you. Do you or I have the right to suggest when someone should stop standing. Do you or I have the right to tell someone that after X number of years you should move on. Ask yourself this….what is true love? What is it? What is your definition? Had you W told you that if you wait for me for X years I will come back. Would you have waited? Maybe…maybe not. Should I have said if you decided to wait that you were wrong? I suspect if you had been in the spot you may feel differently.
BH – I am an LBS. My marriage will more than likely end sometime this year. Does that mean that I no longer stand? What is standing? What is a marraige? Are we really here to save a marriage or save an R with the person that we truly love? IMO – standing is something that each person defines and determines the timeline for. Have you recently read up on the number of statistics that identify that the number of re-marriages are rising at an astronomical rate. Funny I did not hear you mention this stat.

BH - I want you to know that write this from the point of view of someone who has decided to no longer stand for their M. Do I love my W. Yes. It is this site and the people on it that help ME to get to a place where I could make the choice. They did….without RIPPING away Hope! They did it with class and diginity because it is the people that they have become.
You believe God I assume…in your prayer closet ask yourself this…did I help or did I hurt someone today.

Finally, to suggest that someone like Grit is New to this…well that is quite insensitive. Have you read his thread…have you seen his growth…could you not have given him words of encouragement instead of a little criticism.

Guess what, if I had laid on my tail and "stood" for 4 years while she did what she wanted, I would have been ALL ALONE.

Maybe…maybe not. I would like to think that I would be with someone who truly understood the vows of till death do us part. We all make mistakes and hell I keep making them. To suggest that by waiting we may just miss out on a great R with someone new is once again IMO – wrong.

God Bless
Eric

[Truegritter]

First Bravo Eric.

Standing hands clapping.

Low and behold, the Lord put someone wonderful in my life, much better than my XW.

Better? Or better for you?

BH I know I haven't been here long enough in your eyes.

However I can say this with all the confidence in the world.

I don't measure my success by whether my W wants my M back or not.

I won't measure her worth against anyone else that has been, is or ever will be in my life.

That is because I have learned that this is about our growth.

That is the only success I care about.

The only mistakes that can be made is not learning from the ones you make.

The only thing I want for my W is for her to find her own answers and if that is without me then that is just the way it is.

I will rejoice that she is trying to do that for herself in the best way she can.

[fudwoman]

Hi all,
I guess in a way I don't have anything of substance to add here but I've been reading this thread with great interest because in many ways it speaks to where I am at right now and all of my questions and fears. I don't think there is any 'winning' this debate - each person's experience is unique. BH I'm a numbers person too - it's what I do for a living - but I'll be the first to admit that when it comes to an individual case - stats mean a hill of beans. There are odds and then there is your reality. Sometimes people's beliefs are based on deep faith - like Laura Munsen. Sometimes people's beliefs are based on fear - pure and simple - like mine. I have no inner wisdom that my H will decide our marriage is worth another shot. I just have horrendous fear that he won't. If I'm honest with myself I will admit that fear is the core of my 'hopefulness'. I don't think that's true for everyone though. In the end - whether we have the illusion that we can fight reality or not - we all have to surrender to life as it comes. Every day I have a choice to be brave and face my fears or to hide - sometimes I hide because it's all I can do but at other times I find the strength to face my deepest fears. Everyone has the right to make that choice based on an internal compass not based on aggregate data.

I hope I've made some sense.

A

[Mach1]

Easy here....

I know it is not above Braveheart to ruffle some feathers : )

And I think we can all come up with our own numbers to justify where and how long to do most anything.

I have read Braveheart for a couple years now, and although we agree to disagree on some issues, he will stand in the way of no person trying to survive or heal themselves here.

Do most come back ?

I believe that most want to at some point.

Doesn't mean that the circumstances are right for that. It depends on so many things, including the path of the LBS, and WHERE they are when that is feasible for the MLCer.

Realistically ? No , it doesn't happen often enough.

But who are we to take that percentage and hang it out there to interrupt hope from people who are wiling to make that choice, to be there IF they ever return.

That is why standing is such an individual decision to each and every one of us.

If one stands for a month, and decides that they are done, then so be it.

If one stands for ten years, then so be it.

Standing to me involves healing and self growth. You will NEVER see me tell someone to focus on their whacked out spouse, or what "stage" they are in, because that is not where our minds need to be.

Everyone here, arrived here with baggage. Pain and anguish dominated our days and nights. We could not see the light shining to light our path.

We took/take things one second at a time, then one hour at a time, then one day at a time, until eventually, we start becoming people again, and find that we actually like ourselves.

And we can start to live for ourselves instead of losing that part of us within our old marriage.

What scares us the most from Braveheart's posts here are, that :

They strike a fear within us that he may be correct...

And although he comes across as an a$$hat sometimes... : )

He really means no harm to any of us.

Personally ? I like reading his thoughts .

He spins a different perspective within me.

He is a dose of reality when everything gets stuck.

And who am I to blast him for his pondering...

That would make me into the person of which I had been falsely accused ( or was I, with that mentality )

What is reality ?

That there is a balance in EVERYTHING we do in life....

An opposite reaction to everything we encounter.

Although I disagree with the delivery, I agree with the message. That we DO need to prepare and embrace our future without our spouses.

If they CHOOSE to try again, our responsibility is to be prepared for our NEXT relationship, and IF that is with our current spouse, then so be it.

Standing is an individual act for all of us...

And NO ONE PERSON should influence that within ourselves......'cept for us.

[iluvme55]

I think Eric is right,B/H you do sound very bitter....and when that happens, there has not been real FORGIVENESS.....with forgiveness comes inner peace...inner peace that surpasses understanding......that's all I have to say

[cat04]

One of the wonderful things about these boards is they give all who post here the freedom to express themselves and their views.

Standing is a very individual choice and we all do it for different reasons. Just like we all stop doing it for different reasons.

Bottom line, statistics should not give you hope or discouragement. They are no more than a manipulation of numbers. Statistics say you will probably never win the lottery but many many people continue to play.

While I don't often agree with BH, I do not think he ever says anything to intentionally hurt anyone. And I have to disagree with any assessment of someone's healing based on reading one or two posts.

Whether someone is brand new to this or a 10 year veteran, there comes a point where the reality of ALL options need to be faced.

When we don't look at every possibility, we are just burying our heads in the sand.

It is also facing reality to recognize that not everyone is going to sugar coat or be Mr. or Ms. Sensative to people's feelings with their words. We all have different communication styles. Some are much more harsh sounding than others.

This thread, brings up some very good points, even if people do not want to look at them.

Standing CAN become unhealthy. It CAN make us stuck. There comes a point where, if we have grown and healed and learned, that we are willing to recognize it if that happens.

I do believe there are people here and elsewhere who stand longer than they should. Longer than what is healthy.

I might, in one of those instances, try to give them a wake up call, so to speak, and I think that is all that BH is doing. While you might not like how it is coming across, the intention is not as bad as some have made it.