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[MESSIMADE]

luvless:

What do you mean "You are KILLing her sprit and any good "loving" feeling towards you"? Are you meaning something I am doing now or that [censored] that I was pulling on her in the past?

I know words from me are nothing. That is why I am working my ass off, that is why I am doing b/c there can be no lies by my actions. Any projects she'd asked for in the past that I'd put off are done. House has been repainted by me. All her old household chores are done by me-vaccum, dust toilet cleaning, kid bathing window washing laundry ect. Working on myself too. But I'm affraid I'm missing something so please tell me whay you are saying by actions?

She is first, and will never let that change.

[MESSIMADE]

Did I say something wrong?

[june72]

No, I just think it is a slow day on the boards.

I personally think you may have a chance of recovery if you really show huge changes on your and take a solid, unwavering, firm stance that you are sorry, understand her hurt and willing to show with actions that you wish to repair the marriage and try to help her with her pain.

Time, space, patience, consistency, determination, dedication.
These are some of the things I would focus on.

Personally, I know that some people would find this odd. But in your situation I would take a lie detector test and try to answer any concerns of questions she had. About the sexual contact, about your true intentions now, etc. I wouldn't tell your wife, just do it and give it to her.... my thoughts.

I also think you should be readily available for any family social activities and events. I see that as a way "in" back to her heart. IMO.

I had read elsewhere that many betrayed spouses feel that the cheating spouse must do a penance of sorts for a period of time and the cheating spouse during that time must prove themselves as worthy a second chance.

Just because she states she is done, that does not mean she is really done. She had to protect herself and heal. I think you actions and behaviors can definitely over time sway her though.

Other thoughts.... I would offer to move as a family to another location, I would speak to her family and explain that you are guilty of cheating and are now repentant and willing to do what ever actions are necessary to win her back.


Also, I think it would be wise to read as many sitchs here as possible and on marraigebuilders and read books such as "his needs, her needs", "after the affair", etc.

Again, if this were me, I would go to weekly IC for a very long time (I did this with the MC after hubby quit to prove I wanted to work on myself and work towards keeping the marriage), a pro-marriage MC just for me to learn and understand the dynamics of marriage, church (if you are religious) and voluntarily try in some way to show how I occupy my time (see I am not cheating....)

My thoughts again, I would write a well scripted letter stating you angst, understanding, repentantness, how sorry you are etc. I would state in the letter exacting why you feel this behavior was acceptable in the marraige, why you continued on with it (WITHOUT PUTTING ANY BLAME ON THE OW, this is all on you) how you have learned about boundaries and how to handle stressful periods in the marriage, what actions you are taking to better yourself. I would state that you are at her beck and call, when ever, where ever, you are dedicated solely to her and even in the event of her Ding you you still will remain loyal and dedicated to her, etc. That you are willing to honestly and openly answer any questions she has about the marriage, the affair, what you were thinking etc. For her piece of mind.

I also think that many people will D but still watch your actions to see your sincerity and absolute love for the person. A D does not mean it's over. Remember this.

Listen, my sitch was different, but I will state this. I stood my ground for over a year that I was NOT going to give up on us. My hubby could be done with the marriage but I am still standing. And let me tell you- if you were to believe him- he was done, really, really done. I ignored this. I owned up to all the wrong behaviors and actions that I did and I proved that I will not repeat them. Despite my hubby's insistence that we were done, despite his anger and venom- I heald my ground, I NEVER wavered (ok, I really had a lots of thoughts that maybe I should give up, I NEVER LET HIM KNOW THAT THOUGH)

You think she is done and over you. I think she is DIng you to gain back some "power" and dignity but my goodness, I guarantee she is watching your every move. I think you can really prove yourself and maybe win her back. Fight hard for her. I think it will take a very long time though- at least a year minimum. I wouldn't even be surprised if she D's you and starts dating someone else and then still comes back to you, if you handle this correctly. I think she has to follow her path now and through your decisions and actions you can eventually lead her back to you. It's not going to happen today, or tomorrow, or next month, but maybe next year or two.

So the focus should be on the long term- focus on improving you, be responsible and accountable, showing her your love, showing her that you are an amazing father b/c every woman loves her children to be loved and definitely spending as much family time as possible. Family time, offering to watch the children when ever she wants you to so she can have her time for herself to have fun and socialize, to be happy again, a well timed letter here and there (rather than a face to face conversation initially) and your actions are definitely the key to getting back into her heart I think, IMO.

[june72]

A face to face conversation may get hot and heated and over track, she may walk away. I well written letter she will read and also ask that she write back if she wants with any questions she may have or any feelings she wants to express. This actually was in a great book I read- can’t remember the name- remember the author was female- Tuppy, maybe?

And to add one more thing- if it were me- I honestly would stay away from all bars or outings that could be perceived as a "hook-up" environment. I would live a monk's life for quite a while because you would not want anything even misconstrued. It could be something as simple as a phone call from her and you are at a bar and she would instantly assume you are on the prowl, IMO. I also would answer her every email or phone call as soon as possible to show you are doing nothing deviant and include all of your email passwords and cell phone password and billing statement for her to see.

[Steve McQueen]

Did I say something wrong?

Yeah. You told this other woman you loved her. That was wrong and stupid and unforgiveable to most.



I personally do not believe in the idea of "fog" and "aliens" and "mid-life-crisis" as defined by many people on this site. I believe people are fully aware of what they say and how they act and they realize the responsibilities and consequences associated with their words and actions in any situation. Taking out a loan you can't afford, eating a meal high in cholesterol, cheating on your wife, are all regrettable but conscious decisions one makes. When one aims to escape a relationship or compensate for something missing within they do it intentionally. Hence, they have taught about it.

Being an adult you are fully aware of right and wrong. To say you were "backed into a corner," shows you have not put much taught yet into why you let this continue for as long as you did. I did not read that someone was holding a gun to your head.

My wife reads this site at times with me and one thing she had pointed out as unbelivable was

What I failed to mention about the phone sex was that 99% was for her and initiated by her and I spoke words for her that she wanted to hear so she could get off. I did it a couple of times in begining and there was nothing there for me you being a man understand what I'm talking about??

As a man no I don't. And as a woman my wife suggested that maybe you have issues with your sexuality that you were a willing participant in this sexual voice relationship. I don't know and I dont care, but I think to have any chance of reconcilling your marriage you first need to be honest with yourself, and then your wife. To allow this to happen for the reasons you state are serious character flaws and may be a greater obstacle in the process then phone conversations you had.

[june72]

So true Steve- there can be no reconcilliation with out complete ownership of the wrong doings- otherwise dead in the water.

And "but, excepts, etc." are unaccceptable

[MESSIMADE]

june72:
I complain and then it takes me a day to get back here-what a deal I am.
Thank you for the encouraging words. I hope that she is noticing the changes in me and my remorse. I've got patience, consisstency, determination, and dedication. Just going to have to work on time being on my side and learn to give her space.
I have already offered the lie detector test (hell my father in law has told us that he would even go so far to pay for it). She didn't put too much faith in to the test and didn't want me too, but just going ahead and doing it might be worth a shot!
Yes I'm available for all those events. Son's BD was a few weeks ago and WE all enjoyed that together. Had a weenie roast for Memorial Day Weekend together also.
Unfortuantely/Sadly I would have to proove myself worthy of a third and final chance. (Final b/c I wouldn't need another one!)
Hopefully she will change her mind and give us one more chance? Hopefully she will see that I have changed and that I am so sorry.
I have offered to move and meant it, but she doesn't want to. (A hole bunch of ties to where we are at that includes both our parents live on the same street as we do, a farm and about 120 of cows that I could gladly give up if that would make a difference). Her parents already know what I have done and my determination to win her back.
Yes I agree that I need to learn from a various set of resources that include sites like this, IC, MC, and anything else I can think of. This is how I now occupy my time.
Thank you for the advice on writing a letter vs face to face talk. I believe that would be a wiser choice in our situation.
I too think that the D is what she plans on doing. She has said that is what is going to happen and that is the type of person she is and I have always admired her for those qualities. I will not give up, she is my wife and I love her. I know its gonna be a rough road and hard to hang on, but I have to. Its what I want to do! Thank you for the tips and advice.

[MESSIMADE]

Steve:
Yes I realize/realized a long time ago what I did was stupid. Point taken. Now I am looking for help to write the wrongs that I have done. There is no justification for what I did, it is just plain wrong. I think we all can agree on that point.

I have given an open book account of this mess I made. Its not pretty, I'm ashamed of what I have done. I am just simply asking for help. I don't have an explination for some of the things I did, they disgust me, they embarass me and my family. They were things that I didn't think I was capable of. Again I am only asking for help. I realize you don't believe what I have written, but hey I'm getting used to that. You are right, why should you believe me. If I could lie to someone that I loved for so long, why couldn't I lie to you guys?

Well I am / was tired of lies. Tired of trying to decide to tell the truth or not. Tired of being this monster that I created. Tired of living a double life. Just tired of all the bull [censored] I have created and put in my life and "forced" upon my wife, childern, family, and freinds. Do you know what it feels like to want to die? I mean truely want to die? (I hope not for your sake!) I'd never thought like that before, but I did at one time shortly before I came clean to my wife. I was misserable. You know what set me free and lifted that weight off my shoulders? The truth. The truth saved me. The truth I told my wife, the truth I told my parents, the truth I told her parents, the truth I told our friends, the truth I have told total strangers (this site).

So Steve I agree with you. To let this happen I have some serious character flaws and I'm trying to find those flaws and fix them. These flaws have ruined my marriage and my relationship with my children, but I am trying to and wanting to fix that also. Unfortunately I haven't been able to do that on my own yet and that is why I'm asking for help.

[TimeHeals]

These flaws have ruined my marriage and my relationship with my children, but I am trying to and wating to fix that also.

You can't force that to happen. The only thing you can "fix" is yourself. You recognize the need for healthy boundaries and hold yourself up to a higher standard of character and integrity, and you treat people with the respect you want to be treated in the future.

You accept the price for what you have done: you may have permanently damaged your M and your R with your entire family with you selfish, immature acts.

You accept it, and you grieve your loss even though it was largely self-inflicted. You admit that the problems in your M may not have been only yours, but what you did destroyed the M, and nobody can ever forget that.

[MESSIMADE]

I realize I can't force that, but I want to do what I can help that, promote that, and fight for that.