Help

[Steve McQueen]

that's a good start. continue.

help me to understand this:

OW actually told me prior to my wife and I getting married that she would give daughter up if I would not marry wife and be with her b/c I said I didn't think I could be a stepfather. I was trying to draw her out to see if she'd say that I wouldn't be a stepfather (that it was mine) or something to that effect.

She was willing to "give up" a two year old child if you would not marry your girlfriend. She was married at this time or did they get divorced after the pregnancy? Your "former" friend, her husband, did he question the pregnancy? I assume he found out about you?

By putting this infant up for adoption<?> she expected to have a life with you? So you were in contact with her all along? What were you saying to her that her convince your companionship was worth more than a child?

Finally found out for sure from her in summer of 2009 that child is not mine

Timing must have been very suspicious to have you concerned for 8 years. You had a DNA paternity test or is she going by the idea that the girls feet look more like the husbands than yours?


Here's a time line synopsis of some major events you have told us about in the past 3 years

* Feb 2007. OW contacts me to "congradulate" me on wife being pregnant.
* We had some sporatic communication and she became my "friend" again.
* it was sporatic communication that started to increase until 3/09/09.
* That was the day that my wife found cell records that I had been talking to OW alot more than sporatic.
* OW plays suicide card on me and I fall for it.
* the only thing I can think to do is to try to keep her happy and hopefully she will give up and move on if i keep breaking promises to her.
* I come clean to her on 2/25/10.
* "MOVE SOME OF MY STUFF" OUT OF THE HOUSE 2/28/09.
* ABOUT 2 WEEKS INTO THE SEPARATION I GOT THIS EMAIL
* had no contact w/OW since middle of March.

2 years of sporadic phone communication then another year, and even after your wife kicks you out of the house you are still talking to her. "alot more than sporatic" were your words. You two must have talked about alot. "best friends" you said. The two of you must have talked about everything. How were you "keeping her happy?"

You liked her. You liked her a lot, or else you would not have been sneaking off the meet up with her. So, tell us about her. Does she work, What does she do, ever been arrested, history of mental illness? How hard is her life? She got other boyfriends? Like to hang out in the bar and drink? Fishing? She like NASCAR? Is she really girlie? cute? Whats her favorite country singer?

Tell me more about her so I can gauge where she is coming from? If she is "fabricating" stories and telling you she is giving up kids that just got done suckling off her breasts and are now calling her mamma, she wants something from you, or you made plans and she was expecting you to come through, what was so special about your relationship with her? You must have done her wrong, how?


I find it hard to believe a man and a woman can become "best friends" talking on the phone. I find it even harder to believe in a town of 300 people over the period of 3 years the two of you never met up? What did you two do when you ran into each other in town, pretend like you didn't know each other, and make a little hand signal of call me later? Then commiserate that you cant be together? What did you do when you got lonely, or your wife was too tired from a day and night of taking care of the boy to take care of you? phone sex?

She's got you by the balls; You are throwing you because you are breaking promises to her? There is something you are scared of that is bigger then phone sex and a BJ, what is it?

Two weeks after you moved out you got the I'm done letter. You're wife knows doesn't she? It would really help if you told us the whole story.

[MESSIMADE]

I know what I have done was wrong and I am quilty of every ounce of that. By saying I was just as quilty as she was I was only answering your statement about quit trying to blame the OW for 100%. But you are correct, it is all my fault because I let it happen and I was a willing participant.

I will disagree with you about keeping the affair going not out of fear. I was totally backed into corner. What I failed to mention about the phone sex was that 99% was for her and initiated by her and I spoke words for her that she wanted to hear so she could get off. I did it a couple of times in begining and there was nothing there for me you being a man understand what I'm talking about??

I accept you questioning me. I have lived a life of lies for quite a long time. I deserve to have everone question wether or not I'm telling the truth do to my past actions and lies. I will no longer allow lies to come out of my mouth. Sometimes, believe me I have to catch myself and tell the truth when its about simple nothing. But I am trying to make it become 2nd nature. Anyhow I'm not asking anyone to take my side, I'm just asking for someone to take ourside (my wife and I) and to help.

Yes you are right about actual versus phone sex. It was just as the arguement goes between emotional versus physical affair. Its all wrong.

I thank you for your advice and will put it to use.

[MESSIMADE]

Steve:
Yes, she was married at the time and still is. I think what she was saying was giving custody to her husband. (I was quite shocked). I told her I could never be a step father, it just wasn't in me. I thought that would be the end of the dangling of the O child to me. She would either say that: A) its yours or B) get [censored] I'm not gonna be with someone who won't love my kid. Instead I get the answer/guestion "what if I give her up?" He knows about me now but didn't until this February.

I quess that was what she was thinking that we'd have a life together. No not all along. After that incident I didn't hear from her until 3+ years ago (Feb 2007). I never said anything to convince her that I was more important than her child.


Yes timing was very suspicious. She was born premature with some health problems and her parents had to do some blood typing to be compatible for some treatments.

Time line:
I actually moved some stuff out on 2/28/10 not 2/28/09 that really messed things up for you.

Feb 2007-Dec 2008 didn't talk but maybe a couple times /month at first then increase to couple times three time per week. Nothing sexual going on.
Dec 2008-3/09/09 talking almost daily increased to couple times daily. Nothing sexual going on- complaining about spouses.
3/9/09 Tell OW not be calling anymore.
Few days later she calls work and says she cant stand not being friends I am her "best friend" and cant go on like this and just wants to say final good bye and is hinting at suicide I fall for it and now I start digging the hole that I have made for myself.
4/09-2/25/10 I try to keep her happy and think maybe she will go on if I keep promising and breaking those promises.
2/25/10 I come clean to my wife.
2/28/10 move some stuff out of house.
3/10/10 I got the email I posted.
Middle of March - other woman showed up at my work after I had sent a NC letter to her. Said she wanted closure I asked her to leave. Her husband called me later to aske me to talk to her b/c she is "struggling." I tell him I don't think me talking to her anymore with do either one of our situations any good. He agrees but asks me to think about it.

I kept her happy by whatever it took short of real sex and minimized physical touch.

She is a teacher, never arrested. There is a history of mental illness in her family but not with her until our incident. Her life is not hard, she comes from a very wealthy family and has never lacked for anything. Probably never not got what she wanted with anything. I know that she has cheated on her husband with another person besides me. She does like to go out and drink and would leave kids with H to do that and "go out with girls." She does like nice clothes and cars and other material things.

She is fabricating b/c I didn't follow through with my promises. I promised to leave wife was last straw.

We were very close friends all through HS. Yes we met up, even on the back roads, but stayed in separate vehicles most of the time. Yes we met in public but acted as if the other person didn't exsist. It got to the point that we talked on the phone nightly after everone else was asleep.


I don't quite understand what you are asking here:

She's got you by the balls; You are throwing you because you are breaking promises to her? There is something you are scared of that is bigger then phone sex and a BJ, what is it?

Two weeks after you moved out you got the I'm done letter. You're wife knows doesn't she? It would really help if you told us the whole story.

[Steve McQueen]

There is something you are scared of that is bigger then phone sex and a BJ, what is it?

Two weeks after you moved out you got the I'm done letter. You're wife knows doesn't she?

Who did your wife hear this from:

I promised to leave wife was last straw.

you or this other woman?

2 more questions.

You ever tell this woman you love her?

and, your wife, when she was younger, ever have anyone cheat on her, boyfriend, ex-husband?

[MESSIMADE]

There is nothing else that I am scared of from the A. The only thing I fear is D, losing my wife, and a visitation schedule for my son and unborn child.

What are you asking that my wife knows? She knows the whole story, plus some made up [censored] from OW.

She heard that from the both of us. Me first, OW H second, and OW third. When I broke this "promise" to leave wife that was the "last straw" (for OW) that I was talking about. That was what sent her to the
"I'm gonna [censored] up the rest of your life stage" the stage that said
"I am going to hurt you in every way I can tonight through Son, Wife, and me (OW). All night more and more stuff will be happening that you will hear about!!! Glad u didn't care enought to do anything about it."
The stage that said "You know your wife believes every word I tell her don't you?"

Yes I did tell her that unfortunately.
No I don't believe she has ever had anyone cheat on her besides me.

[Steve McQueen]

The question is, 'How to fix ten years of lyin' and cheatin' on your wife in a couple months?'

I will help you the best I can.

There are others on this site that would be willing to take their spouses back after such that you did, maybe they would help you to understand what some people are willing to accept for their forgiveness. There are others that are curious what goes through a man's mind or penis when they are willing to forsake their wives.



I see the following questions needed to be answered for yourself:

What is love? think about it.

Why do you really love your wife?

How could you tell another woman you love her when you love your wife? please do not use out of fear, or I was weak, Or I was not thinking.

If you have to answer with out of fear, or I was weak, Or I was not thinking, why would your wife want to be married to a weak man who does not think about his wife and lets another woman control his life?

Were you really in love with her?

You promised you would stop talking to her when your son was born, you kept doing it. you kept sneaking away from the family to talk with her and meet her on back roads and have sex with her. How could you do that to your son that was a baby and deserved a loving family and married parents and a future with the both of you. Crying is not an acceptable answer.

She has had other affairs on her husband, why would you be telling a slut you love her, be sexual with her and spending time with her instead of your wife who loved you, was making another child with you and planning her future around that, if you didn't love her?

Was the fact she was going to kill herself more important than your family and if it was not why didn't you tell your wife immediately what was going on so the both of you could tell her husband she needed help?

Tell me about every time you met her again.

Why did you tell this woman you would leave your wife? Is it because of her that you lied to your wife and treated her the way that you did for that many years to spend time with this other woman instead of her?

The other woman is saying she had oral sex with you, why would she lie about that happening knowing that her already cheated on husband will find out if it really didn't?

If your wife was to stay married to you but never ever sleep in the same bed as you and never ever have sex with you again. That means she would never initiate and would recoil from your touch. How could you be trusted to never do this again with this woman, who obviously is in love with you, or with another lonely woman that finds you attractive?

Eye color, blood type and foot shape are inadequate indicators of paternity. Would you be willing to take a DNA paternity test to verify if you were related to this child if requested?


I could go on but this is probably enough to mentally exhaust you even without a crying hysterical woman who just had her heart cut out with a chain saw and entire plans for the future and her children ripped out from under her by a tramp you knew from high school. I would expect you to have to answer some form of these questions. The suicide card, I did it out of fear, She is fabricating a story about what happened, and I am sorry, would be poor answers to me, I wouldn't accept them or you back if that is all you had to give me.

[MESSIMADE]

Love is doing, love is kind, love is not hurtful, love is a verb. Love means to have such a deep caring for an individual you would do anything for them, sacrafice anything, give the all that you can, be there for them.

Yes I do love my wife, in the past I did not show or behave as one who loves her, but I do.

I did not love the OW. I only "loved" the attention at first. After I pulled my head out of my ass and realized what I was doing I was in over my head, maybe even out of my head you might say. I was not acting even close to the person I thought I was. I can only say that I was a in a place that I never want to return to in my life ever again. I may have cared about her OW, but it was not love.

I promised to stop talking to her almost a year after son was born, but I didn't. I talked to her going to and from work, at work and when I was choring on my farm. I did meet her a few times, but I will repeat, in those meetings I did not have sex with her.

Yes I question how could I do that to my son and my wife. It is something I hope you never feel. It is like a wave that roars into the beach about .5 seconds after I wake up in the morning and it is the last thing that I think about before I go to sleep at night...wtf was I thinking and how could I have done this? Followed by why?

I felt guilty b/c if she killed herself I felt it would have been my fault and I thought I could prevent that and "fix" her and go on the "fix" my marriage. Looks like that isn't how things are turning out.

What do you mean tell you about every time I met her again? Is there something specific you would like to ask? I guess I just don't understand what you are asking.

I told her I would leave b/c that is what she wanted. I had a chosen time that I wanted to come clean to my wife, after she had been on a vacation with her folks this winter, so I wanted her to be able to enjoy that. So I was keeping OW "happy" until then.

She is planning on waiting for my wife to D me and then she plans to "win" me back. She doesn't care what it takes to get the D to happen. That is my guess why the oral story was made up. That's not the only one. There is a story about her picking me up and I was in a specific truck and taking me to her house, only thing is she was very specific about the date ect and the only thing she didn't realize was that that particular truck had the transmission out of it at the time.

I could be trusted b/c I have walked to that line, I have walked to the end of the world, I walked to that edge. That is a place that I will never go or take anybody with me again. How could I be trusted? Blind trust is gone, I would have to build trust, I would have to allow her to monitor me, I would have to stay transparent. This I can do. I can do with love and with greatfullness that she allowed me to stay.

Yes I would take a dna test, but in a previous post I stated that her parents had to do some testing for some treatment when child was younger and there was no "smoking gun" there.

I guess sometimes the truth is stranger that fiction. I know that is a cliche, and I understand your reluctance to accept my story as truth, but it is what it is...it is the mess I made. I am just asking for some help/incite to put my family back together. They deserve so much better than I have gave them. This has lasting affects on innocent people and I want to minimize there suffering b/c of my stupidity.

[Steve McQueen]

Love means to have such a deep caring for an individual you would do anything for them, sacrafice anything, give the all that you can, be there for them.

Isn't this exactly what you did for your woman friend? She wanted phone sex you gave it to her, you sacrificed your marriage, your dignity and self-respect for her, you snuck off to meet her or talk to her when you could and when you really couldn't, and you were there for her when she needed you most. Do you have any examples of how you treated your wife in the past three years that is more loving then that?

Yes I do love my wife

Not do you love your wife, but why do you love your wife?

I did not love the OW

But why would you tell her did then? Some men choke when they hear a woman they care about say it for the first time; some don't even say it back. But you can say such a powerful phrase meaninglessly? Love as a verb can mean to like or desire actively : take pleasure in.

Yes I question how could I do that to my son and my wife. It is something I hope you never feel. It is like a wave that roars into the beach about .5 seconds after I wake up in the morning and it is the last thing that I think about before I go to sleep at night...wtf was I thinking and how could I have done this? Followed by why?

Seriously why? To exorcise this demon you need to understand why.

You need to know yourself and be able to answer why? To say "out of fear" or "I don't know what I was thinking" or "my head was in my ass" is not the answer.

"loved" the attention

does that help?

[luvless]

Hey MESS,

I was married to a guy like you. Let me tell you what you are doing to your wife. You are KILLing her spirit and any good "loving" feeling towards you.

Your words no longer mean anything. ACTIONS...and consistent actions is the only thing that will work. That is IF she is willing to let you "back in."

One piece of advice - put your wife first and keep it that way.

Luv

[MESSIMADE]

Steve: No I was using OW and OW was using me. I destroyed my life in the prcess. It was not love. 95% of my time was providing for my family, taking them places, doing things with them and for them, being with them and loving them. Any thing my wife wanted I gave her, me, time, affection, material things, sharing chores. I lived a double life and only 5% of that double life was devoted to OW, but that is way too much.

I love my wife b/c I have such a deep caring for her I would do anything for her, sacrafice anything, give the all that I can for her, I want to be there for her. She is the person I want to grow old with, share the rest of live with, be with. I was guilty of taking her for granted and not being true to her and our marriage. This is a monumental mistake on my part and I realize that it may be too late, that I may have woke up too late, but I pray not.

I actually used 143 to represent I love you, because I would not allow those words to by typed by me, but we all know what 143 stands for don't we. If I didn't reciprocate what she was telling me I was affraid I would loose control of situation.

I know why. I was selfish, I wasn't getting my "needs" met by wife b/c I wasn't talking to her telling her what I needed. I emotionally disconnected from her and started pooring that energy in the wrong place. That should have been channeled towards fixing what wasn't working at home, not sharing with another person.


I "loved" the attention at first, but started to understand it as going too far, was wrong and out of bounds in a marriage. Then fear took hold of me and I was affraid to come clean. That is the fear I am talking about.