Allen- That's just it....I don't know if there is anything he CAN do specifically to bring those things out in me....I tend to lean toward the fact that sometimes things just need to be there.
You asked what I need him to do....My list said those things. The fact that they are not specific mini actions does not make them less significant. I can't make my H have a personality, or make him desire me, or make him laugh sincerely.......he has to do that on his own.
Lotus- I do love my husband, and that's why I'm still here. I'm just afraid it is not the love I should have for him. There is something missing. He's almost robotic...can't think of a better way to say it. There has been no sex since we "got back together". And, sex prior was almost non existent as well.
Saffie- No, my H didn't come from an affectionate family at all. If anything, we both have learned that his upbringing has everything to do with the way he is now. It is what is being brought up in counseling. Right now he is suppose to tell me his feelings at least once a day and I'm suppose to listen without anger. This alone is hard for him, I guess. I may be rewriting history a bit.....I do love him....more like a family member or good acquaintenance, though.
Ok, I'll send this and then get to Allen's last post.
M 39 H 39 1 son, 7
Multiple affairs before/during/and after separation, came clean, went to Retrouvaille, forgave each other, Piecing for over a year, same problems exist, back to counseling
Hey! I have missed you. Sorry that you are still stalled. I don't have a lot of time to write but I ask that you try not to shut down, open your mind. Do the work WITH your H and C and be open to where it takes you. I will check back in I promise, just have to play catch up right now.
hugs, kat
Me-53(and learning!) S24, S21, D18, D17 Just keep swimming, Just keep swimming. Dory
Thanks, Kat. I haven't had a chance to check on you yet. Pretty overwhelmed lately.
Ok, Allen...Ok. I'll try to do what you are saying. Problem is, if these things are not natural, then it just screams to me that we are not natural....making me feel even more than our marriage is fake.
You didn't touch the sex issue.....this is of HIGH importance...I don't have feelings for him that way at all anymore. Pretty significant point.
1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
4. Tell me when you are angry and why.
5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.
I didn't write down to buy me roses. He knew he should, and chose not to. He even told me that. Passive agressive. How was he feeling when I told him? Actually we were laughing because we had just gotten back together talking about the changes we need to make and we were in good moods. He doesn't like getting flowers because he is cheap and he likes giving them when they aren't expected....problem is...he never gives them when they aren't expected.....ever. I waited years and years and years for it to happen...never did. How was he feeling on Valentine's Day? Just like the past. We were how we were in the past....no connection, routine, .....
Flowers thing...yeah, could have been a set up...but for me, was more of an eye opener.
I see what you are saying about not giving him something specific to do...guys like those lists of do this and do that......and I will try to do that. But, do you see what I'm saying....that all our years I've been the one telling him what I need and want and what to do and practically what to think....and I'm tired. I want an adult, a partner, a husband.....and I can't make him that way. He can do x, y, and z, but if it is not him really wanting to do it and really being that way...then it is just more of the fake marriage I've had all my life.
M 39 H 39 1 son, 7
Multiple affairs before/during/and after separation, came clean, went to Retrouvaille, forgave each other, Piecing for over a year, same problems exist, back to counseling
whatami- do you even remember what would cause you to desire your H? I was attracted to my H but sometimes felt no desire for him and didn't know why. Over this whole traumatic affair, we ended up learning each other's emotional needs and love languages. Well obviously that wasn't enough because he is still with OW but my point is that now I can identify specifics so I can determine what I need in the future. Here is a list just to help you jog your memory...
here's what used to make me desire my H (and these things did not happen all the time!):
when we had good conversations and laughed together when I saw him doing work on a project in the house when we cooked together when he kissed me long and deep when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal when he would tell me things he appreciated about me when we would travel together when we would have a fun date- do something new
NOW if any of those things didn't happen that day AND I wasn't in the mood, then I did not desire my H. (sometimes I would just be in the mood and I could predict when based on my female cycle)
is this list helpful at all? If not, sorry to be obnoxious!
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
The advice I am giving you here is right out of MWD's marriage therapy DVD... She takes men and women with your challenge - no romance, etc and one of the first things she prompts them all to do is to WRITE DOWN what they NEED specifically from their partner...
If you haven't done that yet then you can't hold it against him if he doens't know...
I dunno, I am getting the sense that you are looking for some sweeping romance here, and marriage isn't like that.. It's just not... It can be fun and rewarding, but... You want romantic feelings like you have when a couple often first meet?
That doens't happen... that's replaced with love, respect, and cooperation... I am thinking it isn't your husband you don't like but marriage.
I only have like 2% of the story so far, so bear with me... I can't offer an accurate analysis having explored this only 2%... But the fact that you don't have a detailed list of actions you envision a husband performing to meet you needs was a big red light to me... And when prompted, the list was vague, which suggests there's a miscommunication between you and your husband...
OK, he doesnt' want to buy flowers becuase he's frugal?
Assuming he isn't wasting $$ on himself regularly, lets take the frugality as a plus - he's investing in his family and home rather than galavanting... That's GOOD...
How about planting flowers? Sketch some with pencil and paper? Give him some ideas that don't cost a lot of cash then...
If he tells you how he feels about the flowers tell him he's being selfish... And that on valentines day its his opportunity to show he cares about how YOU FEEL...
Try any of that, if he argues with it... Even about planting some roses in a garden... Good god, its only a few dollars, THEN complain all you want, he's as you said just being passive aggressive... maybe he resents the infidelity still and is subconciously playing games to make you feel bad? People often do this to process hurt while claiming they forgive you... It's nasty stuff but it happens.
I just remember reading you saying tried everything and sorry but if you don't have a MWD list of actions he can do to meet your needs.. if you don't even have a list then you hav'ent tried everything...
The idea here my dear is that your husband may just not know how to be romantic... He may nto have been trained for that... neither was I...
i needed practicie... but I had to teach myself since my wife was out having sex with another man... Fun eh? Well, your H is under the gun too... He is likley intimidated that if he says the wrong thing or does the wrong thing, or FAILS to say the right thing or fails to do the right thing he's going to lose your respect... so he's paralyzed with fear? Again another possibility...
Yes, maybe he just thinks this is all funny and doens't care... But he did call a therapist... That says something... He likley doen'st have much if any practice expressing commitment
whatami- do you even remember what would cause you to desire your H? I was attracted to my H but sometimes felt no desire for him and didn't know why. Over this whole traumatic affair, we ended up learning each other's emotional needs and love languages. Well obviously that wasn't enough because he is still with OW but my point is that now I can identify specifics so I can determine what I need in the future. Here is a list just to help you jog your memory...
here's what used to make me desire my H (and these things did not happen all the time!):
when we had good conversations and laughed together when I saw him doing work on a project in the house when we cooked together when he kissed me long and deep when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal when he would tell me things he appreciated about me when we would travel together when we would have a fun date- do something new
NOW if any of those things didn't happen that day AND I wasn't in the mood, then I did not desire my H. (sometimes I would just be in the mood and I could predict when based on my female cycle)
is this list helpful at all? If not, sorry to be obnoxious!
Not obnoxious newmama, its a good list of actions that are specific... an excellent sample
newmama- Not obnoxious at all...Let me look at your list:
when we had good conversations and laughed together
*YES! I need this! But, we don't have good conversations and we don't laugh together. Ever. I'm not being dramatic.
when I saw him doing work on a project in the house
*YES! He does this sometimes, and it does give me that manly feel from him that makes me desire him more that way.....
when we cooked together
*Never done this...maybe it could
when he kissed me long and deep
*His kisses were always a turn off...wet, too soft
when he would tell me about his feelings or something personal
* This is something he is working on....if he could do this, it would make a difference.
when he would tell me things he appreciated about me
*YEs, he has gotten better with this through the years but it sounds mechanical coming from him so it doesn't necessarily give me the desire I need.
when we would travel together
*We don't travel.....but that would help a lot. I know Hope4us travels a lot and it helped him a lot. We just don't have the funds for that. We go camping, but not the same.
when we would have a fun date- do something new
*If we could do this, again, it would have an affect. When we are out it is awkward. He is socially inept.
M 39 H 39 1 son, 7
Multiple affairs before/during/and after separation, came clean, went to Retrouvaille, forgave each other, Piecing for over a year, same problems exist, back to counseling
Allen- I don't need you to acknowledge my feelings or even understand them, but I'm going to keep telling them because they are important. Perhaps we will help each other.
You said to write down specifically what I need from my partner. I did. What about what I came up with?
1. Find one interest that makes you happy and do it at least once a week. Share your thoughts and feelings about this interest with me.
2. Find some guy friends that you have fun with, and do something with one or more of them at least once a week. Share your "good times" and thoughts after spending time with them, with me.
3. Tell me good thoughts and bad thoughts as you have them.
4. Tell me when you are angry and why.
5. Be upbeat and make plans on your own of what you want to do.
Those things would move me toward that feeling I need to have toward him.....give me something to be attracted to...I thought they were specific....are they not?
I'm way over trying to get some sweeping romance. I just want to desire him, to be attracted to him, to want to be around him, I want more than a roommate.
I'm around enough married people to know that they desire each other. I see it in the flirting, the touching, the innuendos about sex later that night.....nothing happens like that with my H and I. Never has.
Again, look at my list and let me know where I need to be more specific.
The flower thing was ONE example. It was an easy thing to do, something he knew to do, and he purposefully did not do it. I will talk more to him about it, and we'll see what happens the next Valentine's Day...but I would almost bet money it will be the same thing. I almost will have to badger him and remind him every day for a week prior to make sure it happens...and then,......after all that......it's not the same, is it?
Ok, maybe we haven't tried everything. That's what I was hoping I would hear from people on here. I need that support and advice. Because when I tell you how I feel and tell you that it FEELS like I have tried everything, I truly believe that.
My husband not only doesn't know how to be romantic, he doesn't know how to show himself to anyone....he doesn't open up, doesn't have a personality, would say so much himself.....he doesn't know who he is!
No, he doesn't think this is funny. He called a therapist because he knows he needs help, we need help.......
Ok, the manual. Again, I made a list that I thought was good...tell me what I need to do to make it better.
M 39 H 39 1 son, 7
Multiple affairs before/during/and after separation, came clean, went to Retrouvaille, forgave each other, Piecing for over a year, same problems exist, back to counseling
whatami, I hope this isn't too rude but I want to be honest- I have de ja vus reading about how hopeless you sound regarding your marriage- it reminds me of how my WH told me from Jan-March 09 that he was doing everything he could and just didn't feel it. He was convinced it was gone. Then he left me for OW.
NOT that you are having an affair! But I wonder if you are asking for permission to be done with your marriage in a way...like justifying why you want to end it.
Am I on to something? That you are just DONE? Or am I misreading you.
me,34 exH,34 S,16 months S:3/31/09-left for OW started DBing 10/09 d final: sometime 10/10 current: http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2022856&page=1 met in 2004
I just wanted to give you a hug, FWIW. I remember so well how I used to get very frustrated at a few men who were trying to advise me....and what they would say was so far off who or what my H was that it was crazy. The more I tried to "explain", the more it appeared that I was just making "excuses".....and in fact, I was accused of doing that very thing.
I know you want to be happy. I know you want to be in love and to feel passion. I was so starved for passion and so turned off to my H. It got where everything about him was a sexual turn-off to me. Makes for a very unhappy R.
Just wanted you to know that I'm here and I think I really understand where you're coming from.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
