I sincerely appreciate all the thoughts and advice you all freely give here. I certainly f'ed up big time in many areas of my married life. My wife has made that painfully clear. I'm my own worst critic, and I try to improve myself a little at a time, one day at a time. That being said, I still feel compelled to ask alot of 'trying to figure things out' type of questions though. I need a frame of reference for my thoughts and thought process. You all who have been living this horrid nightmare for x number of years provide the perfect counter-balance to challenge all my assumptions about how this MLC stuff works. Soooooo, thanks too all who take the time to respond. Alright now that I've got that self-centered gibberish out of the way.....I need help.
In a post above Snodderly pointed out that my wife's 'trance-like state' is a sign/symptom of her depression. After having lived through this for 9-10 months now, I think I've learned how to identify her waves of depression quite easily. What still confuses me is how she vacillates in out of these various states of mood and mind in what can seem like the blink of an eye. Today is a good example.
This evening my wife appeared to be in a good mood, but still had that 'look in her eye.' I could tell she is/was a little whacked out, so I kept my distance. She did hang out with me and the kids for my son's school picnic, and she was friendly, not displaying over anger, etc... Two things stood out to me this evening. One was that she had this 'trance-like' look in her eyes most of the evening...even though she appeared on the surface to somewhat resemble my 'real' wife. That threw me off. The other thing was when she 'slipped up' and told my son something along the lines of bringing him to the 'family picnic' for 'family fun', but when she notices that I notice her saying it, she immediately retreats back in her tunnel. That really threw me off. I swear it was kind of like watching a turtle poke it's head out, being scared by the brightness and warmth of the sun, and immediately retreating back inside its' shell. It's kind of like, "Ooops. What did I just say?!"
What is that? Is that her conscience or sub-conscious speaking?
Hi I experienced a lot of crazy like behavior with my xh after seperation He would come over and spend 5-6 days or nights a week he spent time with kids and we talked a lot we built a friendship I listened ect he left everytime to go home to his younger OW( Who he denied the while time this is my take on their behavior they are in 2 worlds they want to continue to have us and a family just as friends and a cordial environmnent where the lbs accepts their choice to be with OP and still gives them attention love and care they want to be a part time parent' and have LBS take on mopst og that job so they cxan play I think their conconience gets in the way b/c they are M and living or sleeping with another so I think they struggle a lot because they stay stuck and they feel guilty no matter how it goes, they know they are doing wrong and wont stop there moods change a lot especially if they sense we are getting close or maybe if they feel something for us I dnt know just my take peace
married 14 years H 42 bomb 2/07 IDLYA D final 3 /09 M ow D ow
"there moods change a lot especially if they sense we are getting close or maybe if they feel something for us I dnt know"
Talk about major understatement. Last night was friendly, fun, my wife was making references to 'family' a lot, etc...but tonight was a mess. My wife is getting ready to go to China for three weeks with our 2-year old daughter. She was at home this afternoon and, at one point, asked me to get a suitcase out for her. So, I go to the closet and pull out a large and medium-sized suitcase. I picked the larger suitcase to give to her because, in my mind, more room is better. We have always taken basic goods to give to her parents when we've travelled together to China - basic stuff like coffee, candies, etc... That turned out to be a near fatal mistake. My wife started yelling about how inconsiderate I am, how I lack common sense, and should have known better than to get her a big, heavy suitcase that will put her over the airline weight limit. She was pissed. Then, to make matters worse, I tried to give her two cans of coffee and a bottle of fish oil pills that I had bought for her parents, and that pissed her off even more. She refused to take them because she had already bought some of the same items. The heart-breaking part was her getting mad about something we've always done for her parents...together. (i.e. the coffee, fish oil pills) Before she moved out she had (still has?) convinced herself that her parents have never liked me, that I hate them (not true), and all kinds of other nonsense.
Long story story short, the alien was in full force. I know her anger about the suitcase was nothing more than her trying to project her guilt on me. It tells me that she's still caught up in the EA with DJ from China. It's out of my hands, but of course I fear the worst (i.e. physical affair) if/when she goes to see him. There is a part of me that feels compassion towards my wife. Her mind and emotions are sooooo twisted and confused, and it's painful to see her go through this. I feel mostly pity for my wife when I think of how far "out there" it is for her to have to continually lie to herself about a 'soul-mate' she hasn't spent one damn day with in the real world in literally 22+ years - a so-called 'soul-mate' who divorced his own wife to project his own fantasies and selfish desires onto my wife. It's sickening, makes me very angry at DJ (the guy in China), but mostly it makes me feel sadness for my wife. It must be unbearable for her to have to lie to herself every day, so that the fantasy stays real in her mind, and so that she can justify her bad behavior.
That makes me think of a question (or two or three) to ask you all. How do you all see this playing out while my wife is in China? Specifically, how is my wife going to physically look at a guy she hasn't seen in 22+ years...convince herself it's really love...then face her parents and explain that our separation has nothing to do with her affair...and then come up with the BIG lie of explaining to her parents, "Hey mom and dad, by the way, do you remember DJ? He's the guy I dated for a few months.....when I was 17 years old....oh, and we're in love and we're a couple now even though we haven't seen each other in 22+ years. Yes, it's true love. What's that mom?! You ask me what happened to his wife? Oh, wellllllll, it just so happened that they divorced about 4 months ago, and it has nothing to with my separation with my husband. No, really! It was all a series of coincidences and fate that brought us together. What's that mom?! You ask how me and DJ can be a couple when I'm still married to Gil? Ummmm.....welll....uhhhh....soul-mate.....true love.....Chinese culture....Seeeee....it all makes sense right dad? Right mom?!" How is she going to tell that lie and not get caught?
Man, that has got be a serious mind f*@k for my wife. In any case, does anyone here have any thoughts on how my wife's three week trip might play out? Do I have any hope that her parents and brother will be able to see things for what they really are and, God willing, knock some sense into her crazy ass? As long as they're honest, all opinions, good or bad, all welcome. Thanks.
I forgot. The comical part of all this drama is that, despite her proclamation that the one suitcase is too big, too heavy, she only need one suitcase, too whatever, and I'm the devil for giving it to her, she ends up taking TWO suitcases anyways!
A MLC has to play out, usually a physical affair happens. The more it plays out the more reality hits for the MLer. They start out in pure fantasy land. It slowly slowly begins to change to reality. They fight it though. Some win the fight and never see things right. Others just hit bottom and come out of the fog.
Who knows how this will play out for your wife. You could come up with 1,000,000 scenarios and it would not be what would happen. They are so unpredictable and irrational. She thinks this will make her happy, it will not.
Me: 46 H:44 Together: 25 years Married: 20 years Separated: 11-30-06 Divorced 12-21-07 OW: EA began 2005 PA began end of 2006 3 children,20, 16, 6 ex asked for forgiveness 01/16/11
Short answer - I have no fears whatsoever. She's about the only thing that keeps my wife somewhat grounded in reality at this point.
In your all's opinion(s), what's the likelihood that my wife's parents will put 2+2 together, and see that things aren't adding up? What's the probability that her parents will sit her down and say, plain and simple, "Hey, your messing up. Come to your senses." Since my wife has been living in la-la land, would something like that make her crisis worse? better?
Her parents may not even notice a change w/her. Don't forget, they like to play actors and actresses. Your wife may not appear "off kilter" w/her parents.
I doubt that they will say anything to her about what she's thinking and/or doing. Generally, when someone steps in and offers advice to the MLCer about what they are doing, it makes them just a tad worse or the MLCer will not associate w/them again. No matter what is said to them, they are going to do what they have to do in order to get to the other side. They are that bound and determined to prove everyone wrong and that they are right.
Buckle your seat belt and pray that she behaves herself while visiting her parents.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Soooo, my wife and daughter have been in China for two weeks, and will return in 5 days. I don't know, haven't asked, and don't want to know whether or not my wife has spent any time with DJ. The day she left I gave my wife a letter, telling her how I felt about the whole situation, and also sharing my thoughts [emphasis on from my perspective] on how I felt we can repair/rebuild our relationship/marriage. My wife was pretty resentful for the first 1-2 days after arriving in China but, since, she has called every two days or so, and has [tried to] share how things are going over there. I'm not naive. IF she has spent time with DJ, she's certainly going to 'omit' these details from in her conversations with me. My gut tells me she has made an effort to 'intentionally' keep me somewhat informed of her daily activities. (in a good way)
I know it's highly likely that she's gone to see DJ though. To use snodderly's words above, all I can do is pray that she has behaved herself with him, and not crossed any lines she shouldn't cross. I want to share a portion of an e-mail I sent to her about three days ago: ----------------- This mess has been going on for one year already. One thing I've realized during this time is that you and he have something unresolved since you two broke up more than twenty years ago. Something emotional, psychological, maybe unresolved anger because your parents made you two break up, or whatever. I don't know and I don't care. That's between you and him to resolve. I will respect that. I don't want to know how you come to peace with him. All I care about is that you will realize very soon that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot maintain a relationship with him, and expect us to be a family. At some point (I pray soon) you have to break things off with him, completely and permanently. No friendship, no nothing. It will eat you up inside if you try to keep this going indefinitely.
As for you and me, we have a long, difficult road ahead of us in terms of re-building our friendship, respect and trust towards each other, and finally, our marriage and family. We've been through a lot together. I feel in my heart that our marriage is worth fighting for. My heart tells me that, deep inside, you feel the same way. I carry alot of pain in my heart every single day because of some of the harsh ways I have treated you in the past, and what a fool I have been towards you. I know I cannot make up for my past mistakes. The past is gone already. I just remind myself daily try my best to treat you well and give you the respect and trust you deserve. --------------------- I feel the message I gave her is very direct. I've mentioned previously that my wife has always been a very reactionary type of person. Six months ago she would have reacted to such a message with anger, take it as me trying to 'control', etc... So far, she hasn't acknowledged the e-mail/message, nor given any hints about her reactions to it one way or the other. What I can say is that the day I took her to the airport two weeks ago she was wearing her wedding ring at the airport. Yeah, yeah, I know. She could have been wearing it 'just for show.' However, giving her the benefit of the doubt, I don't think she'd wear it to the airport just to put on an act, so to speak. That being said, fast forward two weeks to her reading my e-mail from three days ago, and her subsequent 'non-reaction'. Can you all offer any insight on how I should take her silence on the matter...in the context of her wearing her wedding ring to the airport? All thoughts, head-bashings, putting me in my place are welcome... Thanks for reading.
All I care about is that you will realize very soon that you cannot have it both ways. You cannot maintain a relationship with him, and expect us to be a family. At some point (I pray soon) you have to break things off with him, completely and permanently. No friendship, no nothing. It will eat you up inside if you try to keep this going indefinitely.
Radio I don't know what you wanted to accomplish with this communication but to me it looks like you re trying to impose your will on her and control the situation.
I struggled with this too.
Pressure from you will only be percieved as control and well, that is whatey run away from.
If you have read the resources here and you believe she is MLC you are trying to press your logic on her and expect that she has the capacity to hear your argument.
She knows that you don't approve of the affair, she knows it is not good for your M and family.
Right now she doesn't care. Right now she doesn't want what you want and your forcing that will only make her run father away. By opening your mouth and saying and imposing your will on her you are confirming that you are still the man she left...
Get me?
Originally Posted By: mental radio
in the context of her wearing her wedding ring to the airport?
You are going to get all sorts of mixed messages from her because she is confused...
Don't try ot get in her head and don't have ANY expectations.
Keep the focus on YOU and try to live your life like she's not coming back...
I am not saying she won't, I'm not saying she doesn't want the M.
I am saying she doesn't want it right now.
So drop the rope Radio...
Focus on you.
My goal is to some day be the person my dog thinks I am
