I kept pressure on her, I was tough in our legal mediations, I made it crystal clear that I'd never let her take our kids to OM's country, and I showed her that I would not allow the artifacts from her trips to be in my house. I refused to normalize her A, which drove her nuts. She normalized it within her inner circle of friends, who were giggly with interest over her stories of passion, but me, my family, my friends, one key friend of hers, and most of her family would not accept her A as "ok". All of this I think contributed to the death of the A to some degree. I did what I could to make sure her reality was nowhere near the fantasy of how she thought it would go.
Correct, and don't get defensive -- if you'll look upthread, you'll see where we're telling you that you DID do things the right way, and THAT'S WHEN/WHY SHE RESPONDED TO YOU.
We're just trying to get you to keep up the pressure and healthy skepticism, that's all.
1. Leave my W and M behind, for good. 2. Keep myself so emotionally strong and avoid co-dependence so that if she does leave me again I'm not devastated. 3. Take it upon myself to make sure our M stays strong and healthy, i.e. make it "affair proof".
The last option is the only one I'm interested in, and it would depend greatly on my W committing to the exact same thing.
Actually I misspoke. Among options 2 and 3, I'm only interested in 3. Option 1 is still a possibility too. Although I definitely want to avoid unhealthy co-dependence, option 2 sounds too cold.
1. Leave my W and M behind, for good. 2. Keep myself so emotionally strong and avoid co-dependence so that if she does leave me again I'm not devastated. 3. Take it upon myself to make sure our M stays strong and healthy, i.e. make it "affair proof".
The last option is the only one I'm interested in, and it would depend greatly on my W committing to the exact same thing.
Actually I misspoke. Among options 2 and 3, I'm only interested in 3. Option 1 is still a possibility too. Although I definitely want to avoid unhealthy co-dependence, option 2 sounds too cold.
And yet, most people here -- and probably MWD herself --would tell you "#2" is closer to what the true goal and spirit of DBing is.
"3" smacks of control. "2" is WITHIN your control, and healthier, in my opinion.
And yet, most people here -- and probably MWD herself --would tell you "#2" is closer to what the true goal and spirit of DBing is.
"3" smacks of control. "2" is WITHIN your control, and healthier, in my opinion.
Food for thought.
Puppy
Ha! I hear you. I don't think control is part of "3" though. It follows DBing too, essentially saying "Meet your W's needs." Probably "2" and "3" together are the best option of all.
Future, I'm glad that you see that you could have been a better husband and that your wife wasn't getting her needs met. But I've read your posts, and I think that you have blamed yourself for your wife's affair. This idea seems to be really popular right now--that its the marriage that causes the affair, even though I've read that many people report being happily married when the A starts. Anyway, there are LOTs of unhappily married people who don't have affairs. Not that I think people should stay UNHAPPY. But a healthy adult will end one relationship before starting another. Maybe one affair can be worked through as a stumble, as a bad learning experience, but your wife has a pattern of this, right, from her other relationships? Hasn't she gone from one relationship into another, starting the next before the first is ended? There is a clear selfishness to having an affair--and I think that there is a certain personality type that will do it primarily for the Plan B option. That person cannot be alone and is very co-dependent. Until your wife can stand on her own two feet, alone, and deal with you as a grown up (without manipulating you for custody), then be very, very, very careful. I agree with Puppy. YOU cannot keep her from having another affair. She is the only one who can do that--and if she is trying to get control of you through this custody thing, that's a BAD, BAD sign to me. You aren't a good enough dad to have joint custody of the kids, but you are good enough to try it again??? What kind of a mixed message is that????
I have gone through periods when I was practically blaming myself for my W's A, but not any more. I think that's a pretty normal part of the LBS process. I do take responsibility for my part of our marital troubles, but I do not excuse her incredibly selfish behavior regarding her A. Our M was not healthy, and one way or another, it needed to change. We tried to change it from within but couldn't. I had some serious issues of my own that I finally got resolved in IC, but it took years, and all the while our M was deteriorating. By the time I was able to START to work on our M, it was pretty far gone, and my W was well down the WAW road. I had also gotten so co-dependent, and was so stagnant as a person that I wasn't much of a partner.
I look back and I'm embarassed how I let myself go. My W lost all respect and attraction to me. She lived in our M for years feeling like that. Funny, she's a MC, yet she herself couldn't understand why. One day a few years ago she broke down and told me weeping "I tried and tried, I just don't feel like that toward you anymore. Can we try just being friends? Maybe if we were friends my feelings will come back." I didn't react very well to that, I felt like she was abandoning me as a H. It was then that I should have taken my serious look at myself and started to "DB", but it didn't hit hard enough. I was slowly coming out of my funk, and becoming a better person, but I chose to resent my W for her feelings, rather than accept them. She still didn't give up, but I was so resentful toward her that I couldn't see her struggling to find a way back. She would drop little sexual comments here and there, looking for a reaction from me, but she'd get back cold resentful replies like "You've made it clear that's none of my business now." The look on her face was one of sad defeat. It was so bad, I hate even remembering it.
I'm not putting on this all on me though. Not by a long shot. My W has issues of her own that led to our M troubles. I know part of my stagnation was due to her relentless complaining and manipulating in our M. I felt trapped with someone who chose to always dwell on what she didn't have rather than appreciate our blessings, which were many. I tried and tried and tried to give her what she wanted, but I eventually just gave up.
After we were done having kids, my W's body righted itself again physically, emotionally, and hormonally. She became increasingly unsatisfied with what our life together offered her. Our M was in such a sad state, she opened herself up more and more to the world outside our M. Eventually that led to her reconnecting with people she knew in her youth, including OM. She began to confide in him. When she realized her feelings for OM were dominating over thoughts of our M, THAT's when she should have been honest with me, THAT's when she should have told me what was going on, and she certainly shouldn't have used and manipulated me the way she did. That's the real damage she did, and why I'm not sure I can trust her again.
Whether my W is able to truly appreciate and be happy with what she has is one thing I'll need to evaluate if we are to reconcile. From what I can tell, she has made some progress. She certainly doesn't complain much, and she seems to genuinely appreciate who I am now. After reading and learning, I know I wasn't speaking her love language in our M, I was speaking mine. If I can learn to speak her love language, will that make all the difference?
As for your point musclegal, I don't think my W had an A during her first M, and I believe I was her first serious R after her first M ended. We met a couple years after that, so she didn't exactly hop from one R to another. In fact, I met her after she had just spent six months overseas doing doctoral research, on her own (not to OM's country), so she's not the type that can't be alone.
I'm not sure what's up with her simultaneously suing me for custody, and pursuing me to date me. What a bizzare thing. It doesn't make sense, even as a form of manipulation. My gut tells me she sincerely doesn't want to lose me. Does that mean she'll do what it takes for a successful reconciliation? I don't know, and I'm skeptical. She didn't ever say I wasn't a good enough Dad to have joint custody, she said she thinks the kids would do better living primarily in a single household. From what I can tell, she wants to test the waters to see if that single household could be one we all live in. Those are very treacherous waters right now though, so she's treading very lightly. She is carefully showing me a little vulnerability here and there. She invited me to go to a charity benefit in a few weeks, not necessarily with her, as she already has plans to go with a (female) friend, but she said if I did decide to go, she'd appreciate it if I didn't bring a date. The way she said it made me feel good, but I didn't show her that.
Thanks for your concern and advice. I do take all the warnings seriously.
Interesting night last night. I did agree to go out with my W, because I was curious, and I wanted to find out how it made me feel.
We met at a restaurant before going to see Iron Man 2. We sat across from each other, and it was weird. W said she feels nervous, kind of like a first date. We used to hang out at this restaurant a lot in our dating years, along with another next door. She came right from work, so she wasn’t made up or anything, definitely not going out of her way to impress or “seduce” me. I have to admit, I noticed that, and it bugged me a bit.
We talked about work, and just chit chatted. Didn’t really talk about the kids much, which was interesting, since that’s all we used to talk about. I asked "So how do you feel about this?" She said "Surprised. Cautious. Hopeful. How about you?" I said "Yeah, I'm surprised too. I'm cautious, but I hate it." She said "What do you mean?" I said "Being cautious sucks." She smiled and straight out asked me “So are you seeing anyone?” I smiled back and said “You really want to know that, don’t you?” She acted coy and said “Yes, I do.” I acted mysterious and said “I have a very active social life.” She said “Yes, but is there anyone special?”, I hesitated, then answered “I wouldn’t be here if there was.” By then we were leaving the restaurant for the theater. She asked “You’re not comfortable with me asking about it?” I said “Hmmm… I don’t think I would have wanted to answer questions like that back in July of 1996.” She looked puzzled, and I said “When we started dating the last time.” She laughed and said “Oh yeah.”
We went up and watched the movie, it was pretty good, but I thought it was too much of a repeat of the first Iron Man, with the whole “Who can copy Tony’s suit” plot. Afterwards we took a walk, and talked about us some. I said “So what’s up with you suing me and wanting to date me? Doesn’t make sense.” She said “I told you why I sued you, and the dating thing totally surprised me. I wasn’t expecting it. I was surprised how I felt about you when I saw you the last few times.” I said “What changed?” She said “You’re different.” I looked puzzled, and she said again “You’re just different, and I like it.” Then she asked “How about you? What do you think?” I said “I’m not sure.” She said “You seemed to like it when I kissed you. You kissed me back.” I said “I was curious.”
We walked a bit more, then I stopped and kissed her. We made out for a bit, then kept walking. Felt very weird. It really really does feel like someone new. Walls are always up with someone new, but in this case, the walls are there for a different reason. I feel a bit lost, but that’s ok. Walls are holding, and I am in no way going backward, which is incredible for me to realize. I finally get what she means when she says I’m different. I really am. I’m now someone she looks at eye to eye, and she doesn’t see pain in my face, pain she caused.
We did finally talk about the custody thing, in her car, as she drove me over to my car. She said “Do we just want to push it out for now?” I said “How about three months?” She shook her head and said “Too long.” I could see pain in her face. She is not happy with the way things are. She’s portraying it as for the kids, but I know it’s for her too. I’m trying not to react, and put myself in her shoes. I just sat in silence, then she said “We don’t need to go to court. Just make me an offer, we can discuss it, and if we can come to an agreement, we can avoid the whole court thing.” In my head I’m thinking there is no way I’m voluntarily giving up my custody, so I’m struggling as to what to say. She said “We can push this out for now, if I you’ll agree to let me see the kids a little during your time.” I didn’t feel manipulated, she misses the kids, I get it. I miss them too. She said “If by some miracle we can find our way back to each other, it’s not going to happen quick. It’s going to take 6 or 8 months, or longer.” I strongly nodded in response. She continued “In the meantime, if we can just arrange a schedule that works better, we can avoid court. I was surprised how great it was having the kids for the whole <Mother's Day> weekend. Realize, I haven’t been with the kids for a whole weekend in a year and a half, except for the couple times we went away.” I sympathized and said “I understand, I like it better when I get them Saturday morning so we can have the whole weekend. I get it, I do.”
I said “So we have two tracks going on here between us.” She slowly nodded. I said “Well, ok, we’ll talk.” We said goodbye and that was it.
In 15,000 posts here, I've noticed that there is NOTHING as powerful as these two things:
1) The left-behind spouse suddenly DATING (or giving the appearance of dating, or being willing to date);
2) Legal fear. WORDS TO THE WISE:
It is best NOT to draw any serious conclusions, nor make any potential life-altering DECISIONS, based on a wayward spouse's demeanor toward you while they are under the duress of either -- or BOTH -- of these two things.
In 15,000 posts here, I've noticed that there is NOTHING as powerful as these two things:
1) The left-behind spouse suddenly DATING (or giving the appearance of dating, or being willing to date);
2) Legal fear. WORDS TO THE WISE:
It is best NOT to draw any serious conclusions, nor make any potential life-altering DECISIONS, based on a wayward spouse's demeanor toward you while they are under the duress of either -- or BOTH -- of these two things.
Puppy
And both of those things are scary to implement by the LBS. Detach, listen to those who have gone before you and open your mind.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Unfortunely the first one didn't work for me and I am entering the the legal process now. I will not settle for anything less than 50%. My efforts were not enough to change WAS's mind, but I am a better person now.
Bomb 8/09. Brief piecing 12/10. D-2/12 Two incredible kids D9,S6 Leading new life! “Success is not to be pursued; it is to be attracted by the person we become."
