DBing as a lifestyle

[NoLongerHere]

Hey y'all -

Hope everyone had a great Halloween weekend! I've been away from the board for a few days. Really putting a LOT of thought into things and what I need to do now. I feel like I'm entering a new phase of the situation now. There are daily ups and downs and I'm trying to maintain practice of all that I've learned.

We were all sick last week. I guess I was feeling a little like W was a little distant or something, but it's hard when eveyone's feeling ill. Anyway, I think I started to get into that mindset where I wanted to extract a response from her, you know, that kind of "here I am, please respond to me" kind of a thing. I'm trying really hard to keep on top of that.

I'm starting to think of my situation, my life, my anxienty, all that as like a big ball. Either I'm on top of it, feeling good, feeling it move under me and keeping my balance, or I fall off and let it roll over me. So I'm trying to keep on top of it and keep my balance. So:

Thing to remember #1: I give energy to the relationship, not try to extract energy from it.

I think it was Thursday night, we had "half-sex" again where we started and stopped. She expressed how vunerable this all made her feel - cried, hyperventelated... we talked a lot about our intimacy again. We're both feeling a lot of pressure about our intimate life. I think about it all the time. Need to spend more time with C talking about the whole intimacy thing.

Friday we went to a friend's house for a Halloween party and trick-or-treating. It began as a really anxious thing... the boys were SCREAMING their heads off in the car, and W was very on-edge. We got there, and things were okay. We had a great time. W was really happy and thanked me for (1) helping her get through her mood and helping to manage the sreaming children, (2) being so good socially with her friends, really trying to have conversations, etc. - she said I was perfect (I've had a habit of clamming up and not being really social in these kind of situations), and (3) taking the inititive of taking pictures and making sure W was in them - this kind of thing is REALLY important to her and she's always sad that she's not in the pictures 'cause she takes them. I usually find all the picture-taking annoying, but I know it's important to her so I took charge of it.

Saturday W had her spa day that I set up for her (before she set up mine, actually...) - I took the boys to the zoo and grocery shopping. Landscaper stopped by to go over plans and star working up an estimate. We all went out to dinner.

Yesterday we went to SF and saw the 49ers play the Rams - lot of driving, lot of traffic, etc. W had a GREAT time! She said she had the best weekend - this really meant a lot to her, that I took her to the game. She was soooooo thrilled with it.

W volunteered to give ME a massage last night - - I turned around and retured the favor.

Okay - so for me, I'm slipping back into bad habits. Staying up late and getting up late, so W ends up taking care of the boys more often in the morning. Letting the boys run to her and letting her take over (which she's been trying to work on her habits of doing the taking over). Stuff like that which doesn't make me feel good about myself. This morning, I printed out signs and put them up - "Go to bed" next to the computer... "Get up at 6:00" next to the bed, so I'm thinking about that when I GO to bed... "Quick shower" in the shower. I LOVE long, hot showers in the morning, and this is a way to cut down morning prep time. I'm looking for ways to maintain good habits and patterns.

I've felt like I've been under the big ball for a little while now. I told W this morning, "I feel like I'm focusing a lot on you, and I want to do everything to make you happy, blah blah blah" What am I doing? SAYING things - what, to extract a response from her? Jeez, talk about putting pressure on her.

Thing to remember #2: Actions, not words.
Which is exactly the same thing, just a different angle, as: Focus on yourself - not anyone else.

I need to get back to my reading - I've been letting my mind and errant time-wasting take me back to "confused, muddling-my-way-through-life" ways. Want to keep focused. Manage all that anxiety which makes things seem difficult when they're not. Remember my priorities. Relax. Get on top of my ball. Keep being the man that I know that I am.

Okay, lunch is over. Gotta get back to work y'all. Things are good, I just want to keep moving forward instead of slipping back.

Later!

- Bill

[psluke]

# 1

[psluke]

Wow lots of stuff there, I think most of it applies to me as well!

I needed to read it though.

Thanks for the reminders.

[optimist]

Hi, Bill, we missed you. Do not worry too much about the ups and downs. We all have them in regular bouts. Sometimes it seems we even coordinate them. Your ideas are clear and that is the important thing.

Pam you do not seem to be able to get below the 2 minute mark, regarless of how you try...

[odga]

Bill - I like the new thread - I have told my ex that although I have learned a lot since I started my DBing, I have a lot more to learn and that it is a lifelong process. This thread will be a good place for each of us to put reminders of some of the DBing principals that we seem to forget.
Thanks,

[Zoo]

Hey Bill

BOy, talk about pulling off the blinders and performing an intense self-examination! I'm telling ya there was a definite uneasy rift flowing in and around the BB last week This means you were not alone

I think I was trying to do the same kind of self-exam only mine turned into a rambling monologue That tends to happen when I cna't keep up with the ol' brain

I like the ball analogy...didn't you have a good wheel analogy on one of your threads too (maybe I read it in a book somewhere?) ? If so then that should give you a boost...your thinking is starting to become circular instead of linear now

Can't wait to read more about your incite...I get a good look at myself that way

Zoo

[NoLongerHere]

Hey y'all -

Thanks for the replies! I've got to admit that I feel a little bit of guilt when I disappear from the BB for awhile and get behind on everyone's threads. On the other hand, that's what I tend to do - beat myself up for things. Hey! Nice seque...

I'm spazzing out, frankly. Dealing with large amounts of anxiety. Let me analyze this a little -

1) Feeling like W is a little distant lately... well, she's been sick, and the kids too. She's dealing with her own issues of addressing vunerablilty and intimacy. I did tell her last night that I did have this fear that I was going to misstep or screw up something and things will go down the tubes again, and she assured me that we're good. I told her that, although I appreciated it, I realize that her reassurance isn't want I need, I need to address this myself and deal with the anxiety internally.

2) My son. Okay, one of the things with the "new way" is that I'm trying to step in more with the kids, give W a break when they're clinging to her, etc. The older of the twins right now is being EXTREMELY clingy to mom, which makes it really hard to step in. Actaully, they're both like this right now. THey want mom to do everything for or with them. I feel like my efforts are leading them to be MORE clingy to her. So I'm struggling with (1) having feelings of failure as a parent, (2) feeling like I'm failing my wife, and (3) some amount of having my feelings hurt. Okay, so, I need to get a grip here - they're 3-year olds. They're going to be difficult by definition. I'm the adult here and it's silly to feel "rejected" by them.

3) Disappointed in myself about waining discipline in keeping up with the changes and all. Today was a new day. Got up at 6:00 and took care of things. Yeah, my son was in bed with W and didn't want to eat breakfast.

Okay, so here's the thing - I want to dwell on all these things and figure them out, but my C would say that the source of anxiety is thinking about the past and future, and the solution is to focus on the now. I think that's a fancy way of saying, don't worry about things and chill out.

I know this feeling, it's the road to depression that I've been down before. Feeling so responsible for everything, like every step I make is a mistake and constructing my doom, and every solution, every task I set up for myself is insurmountable. This is the state of mind that leads me to withdraw, throw up barriers to intimacy, and so on. This state of worry and anxiety has potentailly been the source of disfunction and pain that I've dealt with for my whole life.

Okay, so now it's time to deal with this correctly, I guess I'm gaining more tools and skills to get out of this and I need to engage them.

Well, I have a C session today. Type at y'all later!

- Bill

[Love2Win]

DOWN BOY DOWN BOY...........Slow down.....Do you talk this fast as well? I feel like you're rambling (and that's okay) as long as you can control it.(heh heh)

I was wondering if you might consider a trade off w/W so that you can each have some R&R on different days yet not give up the work that you have both done so much to achieve. What do you think about alternating days to get up w/boys? You can sleep in one day and take your long shower, she can remain in her room one day and destress and then on the weekends you can share the job. Would that possible work????

Maybe that could have some positive effects on your R w/boys and release them from Mom's grips too. Just a thought....

SO, here's your ROCK.....lean on buddy.....I think that you may be putting too much on the intimacy. It will come in time, right? Can you find something different to do instead of s## after a massage? I mean to make it more pleasurable but not lead to the REAL thing.

In one of my many books, I saw somewhere that said to do a 3 week process in order to broaden senses. First week, massage body except breasts and private areas of either and then walk away afterwards. NOTHING ELSE!! Second week, massage body parts and breasts and privates but nothing else. WALK AWAY!! Third week massage all over and hopefully lead to the wonderful world of S##.

I don't know if it will work but something to consider. Maybe it would give both of you some release from tension.

Obviously I'm not expert here but just my input. Take care. Talk to your C. Talk to your W. Talk to us. Breathe - (I thought we put that 2x4 away but I'm sure we can dig it out if we need to) Tootles.............

[optimist]

Hey y'all -

Thanks for the replies! I've got to admit that I feel a little bit of guilt when I disappear from the BB for awhile and get behind on everyone's threads. On the other hand, that's what I tend to do - beat myself up for things. Hey! Nice seque...

Do not worry, we all have times when coming to the BB is not possible, either for work or family reasons, trips or simply because...

I'm spazzing out, frankly. Dealing with large amounts of anxiety. Let me analyze this a little -

Good. You identify the problem and then go to the root cause/s

1) Feeling like W is a little distant lately... well, she's been sick, and the kids too. She's dealing with her own issues of addressing vunerablilty and intimacy. I did tell her last night that I did have this fear that I was going to misstep or screw up something and things will go down the tubes again, and she assured me that we're good. I told her that, although I appreciated it, I realize that her reassurance isn't want I need, I need to address this myself and deal with the anxiety internally.

What does she do that makes you feel she is distant? Maybe if you pinpoint a behaviour or sets of behaviours you will change your perspective. She told you things are OK, so is it a real perception or is it that you are so afraid of backsliding that you see her as distancing and she is not?

2) My son. Okay, one of the things with the "new way" is that I'm trying to step in more with the kids, give W a break when they're clinging to her, etc. The older of the twins right now is being EXTREMELY clingy to mom, which makes it really hard to step in. Actaully, they're both like this right now. THey want mom to do everything for or with them. I feel like my efforts are leading them to be MORE clingy to her. So I'm struggling with (1) having feelings of failure as a parent, (2) feeling like I'm failing my wife, and (3) some amount of having my feelings hurt. Okay, so, I need to get a grip here - they're 3-year olds. They're going to be difficult by definition. I'm the adult here and it's silly to feel "rejected" by them.

Bill, do not feel like a bad parent. It is programmed in children's genetic code: when they are sick they will cling to Mommy and revert to earlier stage behaviours. Nothing personal against the father involved.

3) Disappointed in myself about waining discipline in keeping up with the changes and all. Today was a new day. Got up at 6:00 and took care of things. Yeah, my son was in bed with W and didn't want to eat breakfast.

You may feel less disappointed in yourself if you learn to expect some failings, diagnose them and correct them. Would you expect any computer/program to perform flawlessly during its natural 'lifespan'? I did not think so. And correcting the problems is half the fun

Okay, so here's the thing - I want to dwell on all these things and figure them out, but my C would say that the source of anxiety is thinking about the past and future, and the solution is to focus on the now. I think that's a fancy way of saying, don't worry about things and chill out.

No, it is a form of telling you: there is nothing but the present. Our past is past, we can learn from it but not change it. The future is not here yet. We only have the here and now. So, if you start feeling anxious about the future you are changing your present for something that may not come to pass.

Remember the bomb? What would have happened if instead of acting 'as if' and DB'ing your b**t off, you'd started worrying: 'she will leave, she is leaving, I cannot stop it, she is goiing to leave'... Keep doing what worked before!

I know this feeling, it's the road to depression that I've been down before. Feeling so responsible for everything, like every step I make is a mistake and constructing my doom, and every solution, every task I set up for myself is insurmountable. This is the state of mind that leads me to withdraw, throw up barriers to intimacy, and so on. This state of worry and anxiety has potentailly been the source of disfunction and pain that I've dealt with for my whole life.

OK, if that is the problem, go to your doctor and have your medications adjusted. That worked in the past...

{{{{{Bill}}}}}

[NoLongerHere]

Ahhhhhhhh..... okay.... now I'm feeling better.

Karen, Opt - thanks for the replies. I'm getting in a better state of mind now.

DOWN BOY DOWN BOY...........Slow down.....Do you talk this fast as well? I feel like you're rambling (and that's okay) as long as you can control it.(heh heh)

Heh - you know, I alternate between reserved, quiet, and deliberate speach... and very over-animated, depending on my mood.

I was wondering if you might consider a trade off w/W so that you can each have some R&R on different days yet not give up the work that you have both done so much to achieve. What do you think about alternating days to get up w/boys? You can sleep in one day and take your long shower, she can remain in her room one day and destress and then on the weekends you can share the job. Would that possible work????

You know, we've talked about this kind of thing, and it doesn't really work when we're both in the house, but these things are solvable. We make time for her to go off and do things alone, and I take my alone time with the boys too. I've been saying for the last few days that I want some of that alone time with them, I know I need it, but we haven't had the chance for it. I know what to do.

SO, here's your ROCK.....lean on buddy.....I think that you may be putting too much on the intimacy. It will come in time, right?

Yes it will. I know I need to chill. It will come. We've got great communication, we have some things to work through, it'll take a little time. Actually, your suggestion is similar to something our C had us doing at one point.

What does she do that makes you feel she is distant? Maybe if you pinpoint a behaviour or sets of behaviours you will change your perspective. She told you things are OK, so is it a real perception or is it that you are so afraid of backsliding that you see her as distancing and she is not?

This might be my perception. Seems on one hand that there has been less contact / hugging / kissing, but on the other hand I can think of recent examples of all this - plus, she offered a massage the other day, etc. C thinks that I may not know how to receive love - and this feeling might be a result of W actually getting CLOSER. Something to think about. One way or another, this ain't no crisis to get excited about, I know...

Bill, do not feel like a bad parent. It is programmed in children's genetic code: when they are sick they will cling to Mommy and revert to earlier stage behaviours. Nothing personal against the father involved.

Yep, you're right. I'm a great father. And my "soultion" here is to just keep doing the things to build our relationship and help them grow into good men. I need some 1:1 time with them right now, I think.

You may feel less disappointed in yourself if you learn to expect some failings, diagnose them and correct them. Would you expect any computer/program to perform flawlessly during its natural 'lifespan'? I did not think so. And correcting the problems is half the fun

C tells me that I am waaaay to hard on myself. Maybe. W has told me that she doesn't want me to be perfect (because she doens't want to have to be perfect - she's expressed happiness recently when I made a mistake or was wrong about something, said it made me "human"...) Yeah. Okay, I need to lighten up.

No, it is a form of telling you: there is nothing but the present. Our past is past, we can learn from it but not change it. The future is not here yet. We only have the here and now. So, if you start feeling anxious about the future you are changing your present for something that may not come to pass.

Yeah, I'm getting this. From C and also from my readling (books from Eckhart Tolle). C tells me to turn off my mind, focus on the present - and when I put these things into practice they really do help.

No, it is a form of telling you: there is nothing but the present. Our past is past, we can learn from it but not change it. The future is not here yet. We only have the here and now. So, if you start feeling anxious about the future you are changing your present for something that may not come to pass.

That's a good reminder.

OK, if that is the problem, go to your doctor and have your medications adjusted. That worked in the past...

I think I'm okay now. Actually, I do need to check in with the doctor here soon.

Thanks y'all for helping me through the spaz attack. I'm actually very happy to be learning to manage this stuff. Funny, with a little perspective it's suddenly like "Why are you allowing yourself to be affected like this? You know what to do..."

Okay, back to work. Later y'all -

- Bill