Thanks. I've heard of Harley with the Marraige Builder's program, but who is Tuppy?
My wife seems VERY concerned now that I told her that early on I noticed him checking her out physically. She thought he was more respectful than that. I told her that I'm sure that if she asked him about it, he would deny it and she seems to realize that. I also told her that back when the OM and I were friends, he would take a great interest in good-looking women and make long conversations with them, and I think she is also quite concerned about that. Don't know why it did not occur to me to tell her these things before. Back then I trusted her and wasn't worried about it, but I should have told her when these new problems started. I'm waiting to see now how things progress from here. I still hate the thought of asking her to leave where she may easily end up in a physical affair, so I guess I'm trying to exhaust every other option first.
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
Ken, many people do not seem to understand that when a W is involved in an emotional affair, it is too late to use these types of books like you mentioned. It is like a lot of people wait until their D is scheduled to hit the courtroom and then try to read a marriage improvement book. They don't need a "how to improve" book...they need a how to stop a divorce book.
You just cannot deal with a W who is in an affair--in the same fashion that you would deal with a W who is not in an affair. It is like comparing two completely different problems! You have to deal with a W in an A completely different than other troubled realtionships.
I think you feel powerless and think you can talk around the problem. I don't believe talk is going to work.
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
Love As An Excuse For Infidelity Penny R. Tupy 2003
So often in my work with spouses whose mates are in the midst of an affair I hear the anguished fear that because he or she claims to be, "in love" with the affair partner, it must mean that the marriage is over and the cheating lovers are meant to be together. Soulmates - because they now feel the intense passion of a fantasy relationship.
But of course they are, "in love." That's what an affair is. It's what the addiction is. It's an emotional response (without rationality, commitment or long term thinking) that causes us to do things that are not in our best interests and that hurt other people and destroy what we have worked hard to build in our lives - things like homes and families.
The idea that love should be the deciding factor is any of this is completely erroneous. As is the idea that love is some magical chemistry between two people. It's neither of those things. Romantic love really is nothing more than a mathematical equation. Spend enough time with someone meeting intimate needs of conversation, affection, admiration, and play time - and you will fall in love with that person. Assuming of course that they are not doing things you find offensive or objectionable at the same time.
The interesting thing about new infatuation/love is that we are blinded by the offensive or objectionable things at first. I think the pleasure of having needs met by someone new captures our attention to the point that we block out the less desirable traits. But like any addiction, what worked at first to create a high soon becomes not enough - we want more. When that happens in romantic relationships the irritating things seem to grow in proportion as the pleasure from getting needs met slackens. Unless real change takes place at this time - unless the real work of building a relationship kicks in - romantic love will wane.
This is when the instinct to demand more, to be rude or even to lose our tempers takes over. This is when the internal shift from, "You are so wonderful, what can I do for you," to "You aren't doing enough for me and I'm not willing to do anything for you - you jerk," occurs. This is where real marriage happens, when we move from - feeling like it- to making the commitment to doing what it takes to craft a truly connected and compatible relationship. This is where real love is grown.
For those, who have never honored commitment when the going got tough this is where they begin to bail. So, yes, I am sure that affair partners are in love. Does that mean it's the right place for them or that they have met 'the one'? Of course not. It means that they are in the habit of going for the feeling rather than committing to doing the work of making a truly successful relationship. Unless something greatly changes for these men and women, they will do the same again, and again. They will not find lasting happiness until they get it that marriage is more than feeling. Being in love is important, but staying there is what separates the men from the boys.
Be an advocate for marriage. When you hear of infidelity, take a stand. Refuse to condone affairs and "friendships" that threaten the integrity of the marriage bond. Educate your friends and families on the seriousness of becoming involved outside the marriage. Love is not an excuse for betrayal and abandonment. Love based on that foundation is like a house built on sand.
You just cannot deal with a W who is in an affair--in the same fashion that you would deal with a W who is not in an affair. It is like comparing two completely different problems! You have to deal with a W in an A completely different than other troubled realtionships.
I think you feel powerless and think you can talk around the problem. I don't believe talk is going to work.
Yup Sandi, I try to put Infideilty with these sorts of problems :
Compulsive Gambling Alcoholism Drug Addiction Criminal behaviour Sociopathic/Borderline P behaviours Infidelity
These above are illnesses that require specialized treatment and a specaliized skill set - a traditional IC or FT is not equipped to deal with these. You cannot deal with them as PART of the marriage. These problems above must be dealt with FIRST before a marriage can safely be reconcilled and work done to repair the marriage itself.
You can try to negotiate with her, but infidelity is awfully addictive and I haven't seen that approach have much if any success.
Infidelity and other addictions or destructive behaviours need to be directly addressed and treated... you can try talking, but most often she's just going to do the following :
1. Tell you she's confused and try to keep the affair going as long as she can 2. Lie when you catch her and get fed up 3. Make a commitment to you and then fall back to the affair again 4. Sneak around until you catch her again 5. Tell you she's confused... (go back to step 1)
You can try to reason with an addict, but there aren't many documented cases of much success there... particularly that last long term.
If your wife is still confused about what love even MEANS then you need to address THAT. Your wife thinks love is excitement rather than active commitment. She's been watching too many movies...
My wife seems VERY concerned now that I told her that early on I noticed him checking her out physically. She thought he was more respectful than that
Now wait a minute. She is seriously messed up or else she thinks she can feed you anything and you'll believe it! This is a man who is cheating on his W and telling your W all this unscriptural stuff like how much he wants to be with her.
Quote:
I still hate the thought of asking her to leave where she may easily end up in a physical affair,
This blows me away. I just can't understand your thinking. You hate to ask a woman who says she doesn't love you and wants to be with OM to leave b/c you are afraid it will turn to a PA?
It is not about what you feel should work in your M. It is about doing the work that gets the right results. Do what works!
This blows me away. I just can't understand your thinking. You hate to ask a woman who says she doesn't love you and wants to be with OM to leave b/c you are afraid it will turn to a PA?
Ken, I am trying to figure out who is in more denial here.. your wife that`her affair is at all constructive or has any hope of a future, or you denying there is greater risk in asserting yourself than reasoning with an addict while she cheats on you behind your back.
Ken. Your wife has an addiction. You do realise she is NOT capable of constructive rational thought while she's in that state yes?
You are trying to avoid this becoming a PA, but the LONGER you allow her to CONTINUE the greater chance she will go to his bed.... the more contact she has with him the closer she gets to him and his bed... you can try to talk her out of that, but its the LONG route and the route with less success...
And there is a strong chance that any conversation she has with you that looks constructive, is just her humouring you to drag this out until she can sleep with him.
In your earlier post, you indicated your wife DISAGREES with the Biblical viewpoint of marriage and divorce. Take some time to think about that in regard to her emotions vs what she "knows".
Since my wife seems to be saying that she wants to finally give me a second chance, I suggested to her that we block the OM's phone and she said she want to wait on that. I'm hoping that we can get that done this evening. If she agrees to that, I think that is great progress.
My wife is asking for a divorce and I don't completely understand why.
I don't know if this is proper technique or not, but if my wife said to me she wants to wait on that, I would have asked her why she felt that way. Personally, if my wife said that I would be curious how she felt.
A wife should not stall on any movement like this. It hurts you, and she's supposed to minimize any new pain out of you at this poing and allow you to gain confidence in the commitment she's showing.
