Guess now it's MY day for people inferring something I never stated.
I never said to be "aggressive." I suggested that he maintain BOUNDARIES -- an opinion that I stand by even if it should turn out that his wife is clinically depressed (and I happen to think she is).
Too much of modern psychology/psychiatry, in my opinion, is just so much "excusing poor behavior." I even started a thread on this recently, after George Will wrote a really good column about it.
Puppy
If his wife weren't showing so many symptoms of a serious problem I would agree with you. But if there is depression I really think you gotta cut their behaviour some slack ... its just words. If you accept that its the depression talking then you can ignore it.
My wife has depression and she has really bad days where she can barely think straight... and yes, she can be verbally dismissive or even hurtful. I just IGNORE it. A few days later when its easier to deal she APOLOGIZES for it all. She KNOWS it isn't helpful but she also owns it later... So when I hear something hurtful from her I just take it as depression talking and I HELP her as much as I can.. I don't pick a fight...
I think OIN may do best to use this same strategy.
Wayward's DO get MEAN, thats part of the problem. It makes it VERY difficult to WANT them BACK when they act like jerks... But in OIN's case I agree with him... just let her take the phone and look at it... I suspect she's feeling anxious and uses the phone to settle her nerves.
My goal in posting here is to help OIN get her some professional help. I don't think his wife is just being rude for the heck of it.. particuarly given her history as being loving and kind this is very much out of her character. The sleeping all day, the emotional outbursts, the out of character behaviour... I think she needs treatment for depression.
I think MWD has a chapter in her book in that OIN if you want to have a look.
------------
Yes pup, I agree some people just use all of this as an excuse to be mean... I don't think this is the case here, not consciously at least.
I don't think this woman's nature is to be mean. I think this woman has a chemical imbalance and it isn't being treated.
Yup, but we can't make an accurate diagnosis here... His wife needs treatment for that.
Don't you think its best to err on the side of caution here and just let the words slide until we find out for sure?
You will regret it if we find out she does have depression... I know I would. So I am reccomending taking the hits for now... and I don't normally DO that right? Normally I Do advocate aggressively asserting boundaries... but there's no affair going on here to be worried about.. OIN put that to rest by showing up at OM's workplace. Just an angry wayward spouse... whom I think has depression.
I think OIN just needs to keep after that Family Therapist hunt and get his wife the help she needs... or at least the help I think she needs.
Just a thought here...OIN is your W doing her own 180's from how she would respond to you in the past?
If so, she may be acting the way she is because she THINKS she's getting a 'better' response from you (as in you being nicer/more understanding) than before.
Does she feel the 'need' to be b*tchy to get that 'nicer' response from you?
Therefore, the flip/flop attitude?
Did you make an issue of her sleeping patterns or shower habits in the past?
Just a thought....
M55 H55 my D31 H D30 1st met her when she was 25 M 22yrs...2nd for me, 1st for H OW 2005 mother of H daughter, came back to introduce D 1bomb 6/05 2bomb 7/08 3bomb 2/10 moved up north
Sounds to me like his W is going through the crazy phase that comes with the fog. My W was doing the same things. Slept alot, crazy mood swings, moral compass out the door. I believe she suffered from depression and I did everything like OIN did.
All it did was encourage her behavior. Depression is like alcoholism in that you don't know you have a problem until you admit you have a problem. "I am WAS and I have depression". His W says she is depressed, but isn't getting help for it. My W said the exact same thing and like his W, blamed her depression on the M when really it was herself.
OIN, you messed up on your part. That's understandable. We all did to a degree. I was like you and took a boatload of blame and shame. But there comes a time when rather than just taking all the blame, you start looking for solutions to heal. That's what you're doing now. Your W has to get to that point as well.
When I told my W enough was enough in terms of her blaming me for everything and that I had already apologized for in the past, she had two options: Either live with anger and resentment or heal and get a better life. When I stood up to her, she realized she had no one to blame for her ongoing "unhappiness" but herself.
My W still hasn't gone for help, but we get along 200% better than we did a year ago. I see bits of her old self coming back. It takes a looooong time. I've been in this for two years now. If you want to stay committed, good for you. You know that in your heart. Stand strong while she rages at you, but every now and then you use the truth to hold her accountable. The truth is what cuts through the depression. You state it matter of factly or in a way that lets her come up with her own conclusions.
I can sympathize with you because I'm in the same boat. And I tell you things do get better.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Its a tough place to be if W is indeed clinically depressed...my W is and has been since her teens...her meds were too high and she was very flat, ever since I knew her...now she's off her meds...
The difficulty is like you said, her possibly bouting w/ depression, withdrawal from Om, and typical WAW mentality...UGH!!
There is no real way to advise her to seek help for the depression...like Allen said, you MUST set the example of seeking IC/ FT and hopefully she will follow suit...maybe then she can address some of the depression.
I also agree, you mention alot about W sleeping- huge sign!
As for W's tests (and thats all they are) reg "oh lets get this...no wait I wont be here..."
Just cattiness and cruel- MEANT to get a rise out of you...so you can either be an ass or be a wimp and start begging...push-pull
You seem to handle it well, I give you credit. I wasnt at these boards when all that was going down in my own sitch...
I really think you're doing a great job and you're articulating and analyzing your behaviors very well
Thanks Jasper... you hit it there... there are so many variables here... I think the best thing to do here is let the hits roll of you and set an example for FT and hopefully she will get some treatment.
W wife slept in diff room than me last night. She slept on old couch then moved to old bed. This morning she walked out the room on the phone. Her father left her a voicemail that his girlfriend had to go in for emergency surgery due to a blood-clot in her head.
Me and my W went up to the hospital where we met up with her father. Her father was very upset nearly in tears and I knew it had a great affect on her as well. I was supportive. I offered FIL something to eat or drink I would run and get it. He declined because he was leaving.
Me and my W left. We went to grab a bite to eat and did a little shopping. We had a pretty descent time considering.
What I noticed was my W would look at something, smile and say "I'm going to get this" and I would reply "sounds good, it looks nice" and she would say " WELL IT MAKES ME HAPPY" so I would say "get it if it makes you happy."
We got home she showered and before I took off for work we watched a little TV together and shared some laughs (amer. Funny vids). For a brief moment it was like old times minus the ILY and affection.
My W is very stressed out with our situation. Her cousins passing (turns out he committed suicide) and now the pain her father is in due to his GF health. I too was pretty close to my FIL GF (closer than I am with my W mother).
My W did say a few times "as if I did not have enough going on in my life" I did say once "it will all work out, better days will come"
I went to work, while on duty I stopped in the hospital after hours and checked up on her. She was sleeping so I let her lay in peace.
I called my FIL let him know I checked up on her and that she was sleeping. He was thankful because he was at home worrying. He thought it was very nice of me. I told him "NP if you need anything, anything at all just call me or my W anytime or stop by our house the door is always open. Take care, we'll see you tomorrow" end of call.
To answer a couple questions... - I am the reason for my W's depression. Sh told me countless times about how terrible I made her feel...I would shrug it off like an a-hole. She even said to me several times ali think I will be dead by the time I am 35 because of the stress you put on me" the bulb would go on and I treated her better but then slipped back into my old routine...
One more thing...my wife bought a ring because it makes her happy. She does not wear her wedding ring but she had worn this other wring today on her "wedding finger" any good I can take from that?
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
One thing you CAN do OIN is buy some flowers on each visit and leave them there with a card indicating you were the one dropping them off... even if she's sleeping, put flowers there with a card.
This is an excellent chance for you to show BOTH of them at the same time how supportive, open hearted, and generous you can be when it is really needed... this is a really great chance to give your wife and FIL some reassurance that you are a decent guy now...
I would visit every day and leave flowers every day.
