How to approach W about OM

[OfficerInNeed]

Is it wrong for me to leave books I am reading laying around? Right now I hide them but I have nothing to hide, I am just making myself a better person and don't like to hide that fact.

[Allen A]

What are the books?

My advice is to put them in your living space, on your side of the bed on the table etc.. At the same time, dont' wave them in her face...

I wouldn't hide them no... keep bookmarks in them so she can snoop to see what specifically you are reading about...

Dont' talk about the books, if she asks about them just be VERY casual...

HER : What are you reading about.. what do they say?
YOU : They are right there if you want to have a look at what I am reading..
HER : Just tell me what they are saying.
YOU : I don't want you to feel like I am lecturing you. You are welcome to look at them ok?

And you walk away...

If you didn't walk away from that convo above you would end up in a fight...

What would have happened ...

YOU : It says that people quit on marriages too early. It says they get distant and negative and try to push their spouses away rather than communicating how they feel... some even start an affair...
HER : That's crap
YOU : I dunno... some of it sounds true.
HER : That's it.. I am DEFINITELY LEAVING.

Don't put them in her space, keep them in your living space only... dont lay them out on display either.. stack them with a bokmark in a place where you would be likley to read them. That's it.

If she wants to look tell her she's more than welcome to open them but don't let her drag you into a summary.. she will start arguing with the book.. that happened to me too many times.

If she disagrees with the book she will attack YOU and YOU will suddenly be associated with marriage-saving and it will all go downhill.

let her keep the books ideas separate from you... you want HER to take the ideas into her head on their OWN... no pressure from you and certainly without you reading to her or summarizing... she needs to hear the books content on her OWN TERMS without your involvement.

[OfficerInNeed]

One of the books is for Anger Management, which was primarily my down fall in our relationship and looking back a great deal in life itself.

The other is religious. I have opposed religion for a very long time (agnostic). Pretty much as long as she has known me I had always been a doubter. After talking to a couple of my co-workers I had come to the realization that had an unhealthy outlook on life. I intend on attending service his Sunday with a co-worker (first time in 17 years or so).

I would not leave any marriage books laying around because she would see it as manipulation and more than like will back off more.

Allen,
As for the FIL he text messages her. I read them, when she does not delete the messages which is 90% of the time. When she talks to her father she makes sure I am not around.

[OfficerInNeed]

You know at times I feel like DBing is hopeless. I understand he core concept of DBing. Change oneself and hopefully the WAS will be INFLUENCED by the changes reconciliation becomes possible.

I am unfortunate to have her in the same household with me but in many sitches that is not the case.

Lately our days consist of her going to work coming home then sleep till ???. As she sleeps I do productive things while she remains counter-productive. When our sitch began and for the first 3-4 weeks into it we were doing a lo together and now that has stopped. I tell her I am heading out and she is welcome to come but she never budges.

[Allen A]

Well, that's how she felt for ten years right? She felt like she was trying and you were being counter productve and negative

She kept it up for ten years... how long can you last feeling like she did?

This is a blatant test man.. she's testing to see if you have the balls to be a married man when its really painful.. and trust me if she ain't mounting another man each night while you do all this work you don't know what pain is... you got it GOLD

[MrBond]

I think you're misunderstanding what DB-ing is. It's doing what works. Have you actually written down your mini-goals on what behaviors you want to see in your W and see if you can achieve them?

There's more to DB than just GAL. It's changing the WAS's perception of you. Right now you feel like nothing's working because you are just going with the flow. Think of it like an experiment like Pavlov's dog. You do what you can to get positive responses from your W and you do more of them. The first thing to do is to figure out what those actions are to increase the positives.

It's like you're dating someone for the first time. You do everything you can to find out about the person and what makes them happy and do more of it.

Just not too overboard. In your sitch though, your W needs to understand and remember what respect is. She had the A, not you. She is in her "victim" stage. Where she's playing the victim and blaming everyone else for her paranoia but herself. Don't play into it. My W did the same thing. She had threatened to call the cops on me one night because I told her our D was sick and should just stay over at my place for the night since she had fallen asleep. I told her she could come over and visit or even stay over if she wanted to, but she said I was holding our D hostage and it was her day to have her. I told her to stop and that I was thinking about our D and it was about time she started doing the same. I told her she was not going to be playing the victim and make me out to be the bad guy. That it was her decision that she not see the girls every day and to go ahead and call the cops if she felt she needed to. Lo and behold, that night she came over and was very friendly and sorry.

You need to do that from time to time. Give them a dose of reality so they have to think of the consequences they are causing.

[marriedCrazy]

Well, that's how she felt for ten years right? She felt like she was trying and you were being counter productve and negative

She kept it up for ten years... how long can you last feeling like she did?

This is a blatant test man.. she's testing to see if you have the balls to be a married man when its really painful.. and trust me if she ain't mounting another man each night while you do all this work you don't know what pain is... you got it GOLD

AMEN!!!!

[Allen A]

It's ok mr bond, the affair was quite mild from the sounds of OIN's investigation.

I don't think she even thinks it was an affair to be honest... I think she's still young and doesn't know fully what infidelity IS.

Part of the problem with the pavlov's dog model in d-busting is that the dog is not RESISTANT to the test.

With a wayward SPOUSE you have to work a LOT harder and it can take WEEKS to get a response. There are things I did for months and I saw NO change from it... BUT my wife told me after the affair ended that it made a huge difference to her.. she just was too proud and stubborn to say anything.

I honestly am very hesitant to make assessments about a WS based on a few months' of d-bing

I DO agree that this is about changing perception... but you may not SEE ANY indicator that this perception was changed.. It can take a VERY long time to see those changes have any impact.

Conversely, if she DOENS"T like what you're doing, you will likely find out right away.

My main point is, don't expect any smiles from her for a long time.. you seem to use HER behavior to motivate you... you need to motivate yourself.. you need to WANT to be a good person.. you can't just want to be a good person to keep HER smiling.

I know it feels hopeless, but you gotta fight past that... she's TESTING you EVERY day.

[Allen A]

The problem OIN is that if you only want to be a good person while she is showing some sliver of hope and she walks out the door.... YOU have NO REASON to be an adult anymore.

Your reason for being an adult must come from YOU... don't use her frown to put you down or her smile to life you up each day.. or you will LOSE this battle I promise you that.

At the end of this battle the wondeful thing is that YOU will be a great partner, for her or someone else.. and your marriage.. this one OR a new one will be MUCH better becuase of the work YOU are doing... so there is no reason to not do it if she's resisting... its for YOU, not for her

[OfficerInNeed]

Well, that's how she felt for ten years right? She felt like she was trying and you were being counter productve and negative

She kept it up for ten years... how long can you last feeling like she did?

This is a blatant test man.. she's testing to see if you have the balls to be a married man when its really painful.. and trust me if she ain't mounting another man each night while you do all this work you don't know what pain is... you got it GOLD

You are right. Compared to other sitches this is GOLD. It could be so much worse for me and I am very grateful it is not. One thing that plagues me is the thought - Even though I was a complete a-hole most of the time, I did not ever deny her affection, intimacy - and so sometimes I think "I was never this bad" but the fact is I was worse! I will do what it takes to save my marriage.

---------------------------------------------

What did work, I failed to mark down or remember, and those positive changes faded away. In other instances what did work, no longer works.

When my sitch first began I overwhelmed my W with love and praise, she told me "thats what I always wanted, I just don't trust you and believe its true, I have to believe you." Then it became "too little too late" and then "I will never be happy with you" that's when the A started to surface. I stopped doing what no longer worked. The A was confronted, she is no longer as bitter and nasty as she was. I have not gone back to doing those things that worked when the sitch first began because I have learned the following.

- Anytime I ask or mentioned something that suggest there is a future she kills that thought quickly with "I'm leaving."

- Anything that would make me think there is a hope for a future she won't entertain. For example making any decision for improving the household ect.

I remember when this all began and I covered the bathroom mirror with heart shaped post-it notes. One each post-it I wrote a reason for why I loved her. She took a picture on her cellphone and left a post-it for me and it read -

"I want to be loved unconditional, I want happiness. I want this far fetched dream to be reality."

I then researched what exactly is unconditional love and in essence I gathered - to love someone with no prejudice, no matter of appearance, no matter how loving or bitter than person is toward you. Like a dogs love for it's owner or quite simply god's love.