You've done the hardest part, Tristan. You opened up yourself to the point your wife is ready to trust you.
RV's main advantage, I think, is that it helps both spouses truly empathize/understand the other. There's a bit of religious dogma, but it isn't overwhelming (I'm not Christian, so if we are OK with it I'm sure others could, too). See http://www.retrouvaille.org for the times in your state.
I didn't just get back to normal. I got better than normal. We still have some major obsticles, like you have with the EA, but connecting with my W in the way RV teaches has made possibilities where there were none or a few.
I really want to stress, I am not out of the woods. Today, we went to a divorce mediation meeting that became marriage counseling! Retrou will not solve past problems, but it gives a set of tools and so much more that can lead to it.
I don't know about where you are, but the market here stinks! We have had our home for over a decade and I think we can get more for it than we bought it for, but I am not even sure of that.
As for the W and me, it has been a tough couple of days. We were talking yesterday about maybe going out for lunch today.
W: "I know, I can take you to the SC!"
I knew this was a place that she went with OM often when they were together, so I had this negative reaction. It must have shown on my face.
W: "What?" M: <silence: I was trying to collect my thoughts> W: "What? Just tell me." M: <shaking head> "Don't you have memories? I can't help but think 'What conversations did the two of you have here'." W: <obviously upset> "Do we need to talk about this? It seems that we are talking about it every other day." M: "Don't you understand how those thoughts could come into my mind?" W: "I don't know. Do we have to talk about this." <conversation came to a halt>
<later that night> W: "Do you ever think of retaliating against me?" M: "I sometimes wish you could fell how I do. But so you could understand me; not to retaliate. What do you mean?" W: "You're not going to leave me are you? Leave me stranded all alone in Texas?" M: "Of course not. I am not going to leave you." M: <pause, then smile and laugh to myself> W: "What?" M: "Funny. You worried about me leaving you."
...
Finally, we talked this morning and she really needs to send an e-mail to OM for work puposes. It is kind of crucial, 100K is riding on the line. So we discussed it.
M: "I am very conflicted here. On one hand, I want you to succeed and understand the need to do this; but on the other, I want you to stay as distanced from him as possible." W: "I understand." M: "What I would ask is that you forward his response to me."
<This request made her extremely upset, I could tell it in her face>
M: "Do you think I am being unreasonable?" W: <silence, shaking head> W: "No, its just that this is hard." M: "What is hard? ...You miss him?" W: "No. Not at all. It's this dynamic. It's us. It's just hard. It reminds me of just how bad I screwed up." ...
She quickly got ready and got out of the house this morning after that without saying much. I feel anxious now. Hopefully, it will get better as the day goes on.
tristan I would suggest that you table those talks that concern your feellings, it's easy to get into that trap but based on everything I've read, women just don't dig it.
You sound a little insecure when you give her those responses, as for her suggesting going to that place that she used to go with the OM too, I would just tell her "I think you can take me somewhere better than that dump, I know I'm worth it ;-)", you know tongue in cheek, smiling, having fun, etc.
It's easy to get drawn into those conversations and try to get her to feel what you feel but she can't, who can really feel what we ourselves feel, no one, just us. We would like them to feel our pain, our anxiety, our embarrassment so that they can take away some of that and smarten up so that they know not to go there and do that again but truth be told you can't.
As for the work thing, I would be conflicted as well. Why does she have to work with him? Can't she get someone else to handle the OM and his account with her company? Surely it doesn't have to be her. If you've read puppy's comments, you know what he says about renewed contact with the OM, it resets that clock and attraction again or at least it has the potential to and she needs to quit him cold turkey.
Take into account when she feels "it is hard and how much she screwed up" she associates bad & negative feelings with you and the relationship she has with you, sending an email to that dickwad OM regardless of what she says, those feelings & thoughts of fun times she had with him will creep into her head, how could it not, those memories can't be erased.
From what I learned in RV, fogiveness has to be complete. This is hard to do, and the weekend may help you both get there.
The restaurant incident tells her that she may have to live in that shadow of guilt for her whole life. Would you want to if the roles had been reversed? Yes, you wouldn't do the affair. But it did happen. For now, at least until RV if you are going through with it (I think you should), then call a truce.
She saw it on your face. Avoiding wouldn't solve things, but you can say that the restaurant gives you gas. Is she going to try to remember smelling...?!! I hope not!
You will get a chance to talk through those feelings. They'll intro you to a process at RV to deal with emotions safely.
The incident about her fears sounded very real. DB reminds us not to hit on issues that can be avoided and will cause pain. She seems to have come to you with a genuine fear about whether you really want her. You might want to consider going to her today and apologizing for not being clear that you would not leave her alone. You are in this with your love and hat in hand. There's nothing wrong (I think) with acknowledging issues that will need time to deal with. The specifics and jabs can be left behind.
"How bad I screwed up"...her job with the OM, and her slowly rekindling love for you. They're all delicate areas, aren't they? Don't step on things to provoke her fear of being abandoned. In a book I read, "Improve your marriage without talking about it", there was a good chunk that opened my eyes to why anything that made my wife feel like left over stew caused reactions and a bad dynamic.
Can you text her and thank her for giving your M a fighting chance?
Remember, she chose to come back to you on hope and your promise for eventual forgiveness.
Please consider RV or a similar program. I really think you'd benefit even more than I did.
YES, he needs to be empathetic to her feelings (about HER "god, I really screwed up" triggers), and YES, he needs to not sound so NEEDY in how he handles these exchanges (I like Rob's humorous suggestion).
But work contact with OM is a problem. I'd try to concentrate your efforts on THAT PART of the equation, and try to give grace as much as possible in the other areas.
As betrayed spouses, we always want the formerly-wayward spouse to "feel our pain," but in almost every case, it's just not productive.
Did you ever feel the need to know when and how the affair started, etc. Did your W ever tell you. Did the desire to have your questions answered ever dissipate?
Thanks for the advice guys. Feeling better already.
Yes, I did. I tried to limit the questions, and only asked them very early on in our reconciliation. It wasn't a complicated story -- my wife and I had grown distant, stopped ML (I stopped initiating, after years of a SSM), and stopped complimenting her (her primary LL is WOAs). OM made her feel like she "mattered."
We will occasionally talk about OM, or those times, but only IN CONTEXT to something going on with us -- I don't just bring it up out of the blue.
I do wish, however, that we had talked about it MORE -- with an MC -- as we reconciled. I do still feel like there are some unresolved issues there.
If you end off going to RV, you'll hear some stories of people who've been through different and similar things (PAs, "regular" separations, etc.). They'll give you a feel for how to approach your W over time to get all the info you need.
Maybe not all that you want right away, but I'd guess that as Puppy said, it comes up for him from time to time in a context, but not as a jab or reminder. Forgiveness is powerful~
I am so glad you guys stay on the board. Tristan, if divorce busting after an affair is the goal, your sitch is about as close to optimal as one could want, yet you are showing all of us how truly difficult reconciliation after an affair is, even in the best case. If I were in your shoes I would be feeling just like you, and would have exactly the same difficulties.
I agree with robx, as long as you're convinced your W sincerely wants your M to work now, humor and lightness are the keys to success. Your W knows what she did, she hasn't forgotten about it. Her seeing it in your face just makes her feel guilty, and doesn't help your M.
Maybe the compromise could be to have some scheduled time for you to express your feelings, and she will hear them without reaction, in exchange for your agreement to not bring them up at other times. Of course you'd have to be prepared for an "ambush", like the restaurant thing, and be strong enough to push it away. No matter what, you will have bad moments, so try not to dwell on them, just keep moving forward.
Don't know if Puppy agrees, but it seems there is a moment when the reconciling WAW really flips the switch back to committment and attraction to their H, and at that point, exposure to OM doesn't "reset the clock" anymore. At that point, I don't think exposure to the OM is dangerous not because of risk of "resetting the clock" but rather just dragging up the emotional garbage again and again, emotional reaction by the betrayed H, etc.
