IMO, you needn't have read the book for this question. It's a question of introspection (although the book is an interesting read).
Mach is right, it is too easy to get caught up in the minutia of daily life esp with kids involved. After all, somebody has to take out the trash...
If I may offer some insight from my little corner over here (hmm, dust bunnies): I would tell you that I too tried everything to reach my H. You know what everything tends to include alot of for women??? Yep, talk. We come at it from different angles, but it's all talk. I would also "do things", but honestly, they were in reaction to him. Perhpas none of this is you. These are just some of the things I muscle my way through.
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Issues were something to be kept inside because H once told me that he didn't want to bring things up and talk about them because of the emotional investment.
Is he the avoidant type? Mine is and they come at things differently.
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One thing H did say after he left is that I never even tried to draw him out. THAT FOR CERTAIN IS NOT TRUE. I tried multiple times in multiple ways.
You tried what you saw as drawing him out but, perhaps he saw it differently. Mine has said he has felt "attacked" when I have tried to draw him out. Did I think that's what I was doing? Uh, nooo, but it isn't important what my intent was (you know, pathways being lined with good intentions ). What was important was what he saw and felt. So, I use different stategies now, ones that have been helpful with my D's.
One of the most helpful thing I (finally) got was something my brother has said over the years about processing time. When you bring up a topic for discussion (esp one where you're trying to fix something), how long have you been thinking about it? Are you giving the other person the time they need to think about it (privately) or are you wanting to get your point across and "work on it" now. Since, after all, that was the point in bringing it up. Some of us need more processing time than others.
Mach - Actions were the way I tried to speak to him because talking was out for the most part. H would express displeasure about something and I would defend myself or give an excuse first. and then go about trying to fix it. I do admit that most of the changes would revert back (and here comes the excuse) I just didn't have the energy to keep them all up in the last couple years. I realize now that menopause zapped my reserves and I became overwhelmed. That's over and my energy has returned, but too late. I did try to explain what was going on with me to H, but he was in his own depression and pain. He had nothing left to give.
I get it, and you're right, the mirror work is tough. I know my part in blowing this M. I've made changes, for me. Only for me. H has ow to be what I wasn't to him. He told me he is finally happy with the love of his life and her being perfect for him would never change. H doesn't notice my changes because I'm not his focus anymore especially since I've detached and don't push his buttons anymore. That's the way it is and it's not my choice or decision and I can not fix it this time.
Maybe H isn't in MLC and is a WAH. Maybe I was trying to fit him in that category because I wanted to have an excuse for why he did what he did. It could be that I did that hoping that he would wake up someday and realize all that he's thrown away, including the kids. Maybe I was trying to use him being in MLC to defend myself or to try to ease my guilt because I can't understand why after 27 years, 7 kids, a home we loved, that the love I thought we had for each other just disappeared almost overnight for him. (If his love for me was gone for as long as he said it had been H deserves an Academy Award) It is a hard thing to face that this person whom I've loved for more than half my life just couldn't stand me anymore and walked. It could be that I wanted to believe MLC so that down the road there might be a chance to build a new R with him.
All of this said, I would bet my farm that H has very low testosterone. His depression and anger are still very evident as is his memory loss. There were intimacy problems I believe because of it.(Always had been great during our M) I know that it bothered H. The times I tried to talk to H about it I was gentle and compassionate. I tried to get him to see a doctor, but he wouldn't. I didn't push or nag, I understood. During my menopause it didn't matter much to me, but as I finished my interest returned, by that time H didn't even want to try. I missed that part of our M. I guess me trying to get H to see a doc about it could have been seen as pressure to him. I know he didn't leave me because of that. Not from my own snooping, but from ow's words to her XSIL, I know she hates it, and no wonder from what she went through as a child. Apparently there is no pressure for that from her.
I know how complicated this all sounds. The bottom line is that I already loved my H unconditionally. Not a doormat, just detached when I had to during the marriage because there were some things I couldn't fix. I didn't bury my head in the sand. I saw the problems clearly, fixed what I could when I could, but it takes two to fix some things. You can only control yourself.
If the above sounds like a pity party, I admit I feel sorry for all that we've lost. I feel even more sorry for my Ds. They're the biggest losers in all this. The events that have transpired are very confusing to all of us. I will protect them and do what I can to minimize the damage.
I have asked God for strength and He has blessed me. We will get through this and be okay.
First, read the book (it doesn't take that long), go to the website, take the test, you may be surprised.
While you may have changed things through actions, they may not have been the "right" actions.
Additionally, if the changes didn't stick, then they either weren't the right changes OR they were not real.
We all get tired. We all get sad. We all get to the point where we don't think we can do this one second longer...
And maybe with your current R you will eventually say that you can't. That is up to you.
Trust me, you may not think your H sees changes that you have made so far. He does.
You may believe his words, and he does believe them right now. But you have already talked about the fact that things are not so rosy with OW anymore.
Honestly, that, right now, is irrelevant. Your H is still running. He has not begun to look inside yet.
However...
You have pretty much mastered detatchment...
Now, it is time for you to take your next step...
This is the really really fukcnig hard part.
My friend Mach, he has placed you before the mirror and asked you to take a look. Maybe a look in the right direction for your next step.
He is right, your NEXT R deserves this. Whether a new R with your H or a new R with someone else, no one knows. But either way, it deserves this work and introspection. YOU deserve to give this gift to yourself.
While it is hard and it sucks, IF you do this, you WILL look back and be amazed at how far you have come. And you will see it as a gift.
Look in the mirror a bit more closely. You can curse Mach while you are doing it, he won't mind...
But eventually, you may just thank him...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
I get it, and you're right, the mirror work is tough. I know my part in blowing this M.
SA,
I'm not just talking about what went wrong with this.
It is good to reflect the past.
It is equally as good to see the person you want to be in that mirror.
The person you are, and want to be....in every form of you.
Do you like the way you look, interact, your attitude, anything about yourself that you deem questionable...
Think of this as your own little MLC, you just get to do it with a clear mind, and conscious...
Those questionable features....now is the time for the chopping block.
Do( did) you speak with your heart ? or your head ?
Which do you prefer to speak with ?
Are you a forgiving spirit ?
To yourself AND others ?
Are you comfortable in your own skin ?
Those are the things that YOU deserve right now....
And , I really don't need these answers...they are for you, and now is the time for them...
All the answers you desire are inside of you, just make sure you ask yourself the hard questions....
I'm just getting you started....
: )
Originally Posted By: SeekingAnswers
If the above sounds like a pity party, I admit I feel sorry for all that we've lost. I feel even more sorry for my Ds. They're the biggest losers in all this. The events that have transpired are very confusing to all of us. I will protect them and do what I can to minimize the damage.
Be careful with this please....
I have seen a lot of people use children (although the intentions are good ) as a battle cry for a pity party of Titanic proportion....
There is sadness for what our children endure through this.
Use that anger, and sadness as a shield that covers them, and be the rock for them.
I have a financial question I could use some help with.
When leaving my H told me we would split the income tax 50/50 and his annual bonus check. Income tax has been split. H has had his bonus check for about a week now and hasn't mentioned it to me. Do I ask him if he still intends to split that with me or let it go? I've always thought of that as his money as he has worked like a dog all his life. Usually he would spend at least a portion of it on the house or something we needed or wanted.
I don't need it to get by, but would have used it to retain a L in case of LS and D. (H is still under the impression that we will use the same L) If he doesn't split it I will ask that since this is his decision to D that he pay for my L as part of the settlement.
Maybe H isn't in MLC and is a WAH. Maybe I was trying to fit him in that category because I wanted to have an excuse for why he did what he did. It could be that I did that hoping that he would wake up someday and realize all that he's thrown away, including the kids. Maybe I was trying to use him being in MLC to defend myself or to try to ease my guilt because I can't understand why after 27 years, 7 kids, a home we loved, that the love I thought we had for each other just disappeared almost overnight for him. (If his love for me was gone for as long as he said it had been H deserves an Academy Award) It is a hard thing to face that this person whom I've loved for more than half my life just couldn't stand me anymore and walked. It could be that I wanted to believe MLC so that down the road there might be a chance to build a new R with him.
Wow SA, I have exactly the same thoughts. I could have written this myself.
M53 H54 D17 M33Y T38Y Bomb OW 09/09 OUT 10/09 BACK 11/09 OUT 01/10 WANTS TO R 04/10 BACK with OW 05/10 Wants to Reconcile 05/11 I said NO
OP - Just planned on asking if he still intended to split it. Nothing else and zero expectations. Just may let it go. He'll need it for his vacation with ow and for the things he'll buy our grandchildren when they stop there so he can introduce her to them. Yeah, that hurts.
Mila - I've been through the resources looking for answers. Some of it fits my H as a MLC. Some of it doesn't. I am very confused and am struggling with knowing how to proceed as my end goal is to try and save my marriage. You do some things different when it's MLC vs WAH. Know one thing for sure, my H is depressed.
). What was important was what he saw and felt. So, I use different stategies now, ones that have been helpful with my D's. 
