Understood. I am getting it. Before I discovered DR book and this forum I read other materials that took a different approach which I can now see would be considered pursuit. I am just trying to break out of that mind set.
As I mentioned we are almost on month two of change and improving myself. I will be making calls today in attempts to find a good therapist.
I am willing to put the work and time in, just sometimes I start to panic because I feel like time is running out but I know by letting the panic set in I am being selfish and not pursuing my goal of becoming a better person.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
You are very insistent that you know how to treat a wife. But I don't see a thread anywhere where you tell us about your home life. Are you still married? Is your wife happy? How did you become an expert in human relations?
The fear of "pursuing" has grown to enormous proportions here. It used to be bringing flowers, begging and pleading. Now your definition includes any conversation with the wife at all. Don't be ridiculous!
The point has been made and bears repeating....men are not experts on what women want. Conversation is not pursuing behavior. Conversation is human interaction. And communication is the key to marriage. Yes, the reason your marriage is in trouble is because of communication failures.
Want to know what she likes about OM? She told you. He talks to her! He likes to talk to her. He listens to what she says. Is he so good at talking to his own wife at home? Probably not.
No woman ever fell in love with a man who didn't talk to her. I am a woman. I am intrinsically better qualified to talk about what a woman wants. And I can tell you that if she wants to talk to her husband, he'd better be ready to LISTEN. Not walk away!
Did not see your post before my latest post. My W never felt that she could talk to me and I usually just shut her out. She told me a few days ago that OM "was easy to talk to." In one of my past posts I had asked something along the lines of
- When you have been cold for so long in the R, what positive can come out of similar behavior of "not being there" for her
Either way I appreciate all the input and help. I am trying to create a better quality of life and in the process save my marriage.
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
Lotus. I am not suggesting all conversation is pursuit.
I ALSO do not advocate ALL of MWD's advice, I advcate SOME, and I disagree with some
The leaving the spouse ALONE and AVOIDING conversation is NOT from MWD, but it IS advice from FT science. There ARE other books out there besides MWD and they do NOT all agree with everything she says either.
I do NOT have a thread up here because my wife and I are piecing and I promised her I would NOT disclose our problems on forums... this was one thing she did NOT like me doing so I made a commitment NOT to do that... and she DOES read my posts sometimes. I am NOT going to post something that would offend her or disclose information about our marriage that she is not in agreemetn with me disclosing.
If she were having an AFFAIR right NOW, I would have NO inhibitions about it, i fully endorse EXPOSURE and that WOULD be exposure. I encourage those dealing with affairs right now to expose here and elsewhere, UNLIKE MWD who reccomends you do NOT expose...
Lotus, there are MANY on this forum who HAVE tried MWD's strategies for affairs and they do NOT work. I am reccomendign OTHER strategies from OTHER FT's.. GOOD ones... PUBLISHED ones...
Hardley, Glass, Spring, Johnson, McGraw, and others who do NOT endorse teh MWD approach letter by letter.
I do not presume to be an expert on what women want. I do NOT reccomend catering to teh whim of a WAYWARD SPOUSE who simply hurls ABUSE at their partner instead of offering something constructive.
Until HEALTHY conversation can take place, I do NOT reccomend ENGAGING in conversation.
There are MANY spouses here who start up conversation simply to BAIT A FIGHT to VALIDATE LEAVING...
Why would you reccomend these people PURSUE conversation? It's just destructive and unhealthy...
She liked talking to him because he WASNT her HUSBAND, he was NEW and MYSTERIOUS... THAT is why she talked to him, it wasn't because he's a good talker...
I do NOT expect OIN's wife to fall in love with him. I expect her to be MOTIVATED by adult behaviour enough to take PART in it and WORK with he husband again.
Being a WOMAN does NOT make you better qualified to offer advice, sorry, but we are ALL EQUALS on this forum. Being a man does NOT make me an idiot.
Catering to the WHIMS of a WAYWARD spouse just makes you ILL... it does NOT help solve anything. Their judgement is IMPAIREd enough to stray into an affair they are NOT in a place to be listened to blindly.
If they have only destructive conversation to offer, I reccomend WALKING AWAY.. YES, I SAID THAT before.. if the convo is DESTRUCTIVE.. walk away.. YOU didn't read that carefullly enough... despite you feeling mroe qualified to offer advice, you seem to have missed someting I had written several times
Destructive conversation should NOT be catered to... just LEAVE.. that's my advice.
Yes, a 180 means to do the opposite of what you would normally do. So, if you were cold, then to do a 180 means to be warm. These are the kinds of changes that you should make.
My marriage, and many others have been healed by going to a Retrouvaille weekend. We learned how to communicate effectively with each other. How to talk to each other without getting into arguments. And how to negotiate so that we both get what we want, not one or the other. You can find info on their website, www.helpourmarriage.org. Two DB couples went this past weekend, and both found it helpful.
If you want to save your marriage, you will need to talk to your wife. But even more than talk, you will need to listen. Listen to what she says, and then try to explain it back to her. "This is what I think you are telling me,...." and ask her if your understanding is correct. You have much time to make up for. You will not make her love you ignoring her, or avoiding her, or any other such thing. You must always treat her AT LEAST as well as you would a stranger. If a stranger said to you, "I want to talk to you", would you find excuses to walk away?
- When you have been cold for so long in the R, what positive can come out of similar behavior of "not being there" for her
You are not trying to offer that right now, your goal is to set an example of adult behaviour first, THEN meet her specific needs.
Right now she isn't even in a STATE to receive them.. THAT is why MWD does not reccomend pursuit.. you are PUSHING your spouse into something they are NOT ready for.
I do NOT think your spouse is ready to be treated as if your relationship is on healthy ground, its NOT.
Until she has HOPE again, and CONFIDENCE in YOU again, she is giong to be difficult and vulnerable.
I DO reccomend hearing what she has to say. Do NOT shut her out blindly.. but if she starts talking about divorce plans or separation plans... LEAVE
If she expresses sadness, or feelings of being overwhelmed and lost, offer support, sympathy, but do NOT PUSH ANY affection or warmth on her that she may feel is ANY PRESSURE
SHe's like a piece of glass right now.. you need to handle with CARE... if you apply too much pressure, she's gonna BOLT
For the last several years, you have been NOT applying ENOUGh pressure and ignored her... so she fell.. NOW, you are reversing your approach and CRUSHING her...
Listen to what she has to say, if its positive stuff, then work with it... if its negative :
"I am sorry you are so upset. I am working informatlly with some family therapy now, and I am also looking for a Family Therapist in our area for me to talk to... I will leave you a busienss card once I have one. You are welcome to use it or not it's your choice"
And that's it. YOu show her YOU are working on YOU and tell her you are sorry she's upset and that's IT...
Do NOT validate her feelings in such a way that she will think you agree
If she says She' wants out, you just say I am sorry you feel that way, you don't say OK, you don't say Good for you, or anything positive to that.. its negative
The only thing you offer back from negative is that YOU are going to family therapy for some answers... you are setting an example of adult behaviuor that way...
If she talks about movign out, let her tell you how she feels, but if she wants your input, your input is to LEAVE the ROOM
Do NOT participate in any talk like that... she WANTS you to AGREE and SUPPORT her leaving? The answer is your back to her... not a WORD
Just say I am sorry you feel that way, MAYBE give her a hug, and then you walk out of the room.
She will likley chase you. Your position is the same :
When things are bad, you go to family therapy, you dont' move out, you don't leave, you don't cheat, you don't do ANYTHING destructive to your marriage.. you go to a professional and WORK on it...
It is MUCH more important that you DO this rather than lecture her on it... so YOU are doing to DO It.. to set an example for her...
I BET YOUR MARRIAGE on it that once you start going, SHE will be interested... I bet my life on it.
Ask mb28, her H didn't want to go either, but he's giong in for his second session soon... go figure eh?
Lotus...Allen did encourage OIN to listen to his wife, just not to pursue conversation. OIN's wife is on edge and the tiniest bit of pursuit will push her further away. This happened with me and my husband while we were still living together.
Me: 28 H: 32 1st marriage 4 both 1 1/2 year married 2gether for 9 1S: 6months 1stepson: 2yo
Lotus...Allen did encourage OIN to listen to his wife, just not to pursue conversation. OIN's wife is on edge and the tiniest bit of pursuit will push her further away. This happened with me and my husband while we were still living together.
Thanks 4luv, I was goign to comment on that but you beat me to it.
The OTHER conern here is there is an affair brewing, 4luv I think you as much as anyone on this forum can attest that OIN being WARM during an affair is NOT going to bring his wife back. lol
I dont know HOW many people here have tried that and it just made things worse...
OK so far the rest of the day has played out as follows...
I was getting ready to do a little shopping and my wife became curious and asked "where you going?" I said "a few stores, your welcome to come if you like" she said "No" so I carried on doing whatever I was doing then she asked if I could pick up somethings for her the she made a list of items. I did get the items on the list.
we had a few conversations non-R related.
We received an invitation to a friend wedding in the mail, what do I do?
M: 27, W: 25 Together since: 01/31/00 M: 10/4/09 (8 Months) ILBNILWY: 01/24/10 EA confirmed: 02/10/10 (Busted). Road to Reconcile began: 07/10/10 Retrouvaille: 09/10/10
1. I would NOT invite her to come along to shop.. that is pursuit.. just TELL her what YOU are doing.. if SHE wants to GO she will TELL you.. stop chasing her
2. You survived the day.. congrats!
3. Tell her you will be going to the wedding. Do NOT ask her what she will be diong, do NOT invite her, do NOT tell her she's welcome to go with you.. YOU just tell her what YOU plan on doing and THat is ALL you SAY.
If she tells you she doesnt' have a dress or sometthing, THEN you offer something constructive like "I am sure you can find something great if you went to shop for one"... do NOT invite yourself along OR ANYTHING like that.. just be supoprtive
do NOT try to SQUEEZE yourself into her LIFE at ALL.. she will invite you in when SHE is ready
Lotus may disagree w/ me, but I think that is great advice about the wedding...heres the deal though- W might return some spew about you being rude or what-not. "It would be nice if you wanted me to go too..." something like that...be careful not to get sucked in...
Every sitch is different but the important thing is to always be civil and CONSISTANT
