Back here, for the second time... #69

[flowmom]

Sexual intimacy opens doors that talking and time don't. It would only work if it feels right to you...

[AliSuddenly]

Hey K, good that you checked his laptop, I would have done too.

They are OLD emails/files though hey, past, history, but still as Kerry says, it must have hurt.

How do you feel now? I mean, seeing as there were no NEW messages between them, do you feel relieved?

I understand its hard to trust him after the way he acted, but whats the purpose of not trusting him at all as your post said? Protection? So you will know, what, straight away if it happens again? To minimise hurt? So you dont feel stupid if he does it again and you dont know/find out??

Would it be any easier to conduct your R without the shadow of mistrust? Because that does sound stressful and like you must be on "high alert" all the time, or a part of your brain is. Can you downgrade it and just go on orange alert?.. may be a potential threat, or yellow even, maybe a threat in the future, or, well whatever it is! Didnt America stay on high alert since 9/11 but it just breeds fear and anxiety and what good does it really do!? Did it stop that guy trying to set light to his underpants on a flight to the US recently?? No!

Anyway, just my thoughts. I understand that to rebuild trust after an A, the WAS has to act in a trustable way, give free access to phones, computers, be open, honest, do MORE than you would in a normal R, go the extra mile to restore trust. I know he isnt doing enough, but he has given you access to these things, now, at least, so maybe take heart from that?

xx

[Kalni]

Funny thing is this time reading that email he had on his laptop (the rest were HER work files), I felt stronger. The stupidity of her arguments made me realize she is far more pathetic than I thought. Especially the phrase "if your kids arent a reason good enough for you, then think about your sex life!!!". She was "defending" our kids and thought his sex life was a stronger motive!!!
I can understand why she'd gone crazy. I mean, she actually thought THEY would build a life together, he left us for God's sake, for HER!!! And then, her dream became an agonizing nightmare...

Anyway, the weekend was relaxed and nice. I am acting as the best life partner I can be, granted the situation. I felt much better too. I had moments when I felt I am doing the hard work again but once I would remind myself, I am doing this FOR ME, I was feeling better and more determined.

A couple of times, his mood was low/he felt tired but pretty quickly he would "follow me". I am polite, caring, upbeat, easy going and funny. No R talks, no comments about her or their A, just living the present.

There were a few incidents that felt good like for example, I laid on the carpet tickling my D and him and my S joined us and we were all tickling each other and he actually started tickling me which is rare. Our physical contact is very limited.

Sat moring we went shopping and he bought me what I wanted, a nice black shirt. On Sat evening we met with some friends of ours that were separated but got back together and they are extremely happy. They were talking to us about the new hobbies they took on, the time they spend together, their future plans... I felt a bit awkward but later when they left, I wasnt mad at him as I would have been in the past, I was still sweet and caring tc etc. I think that was something he noticed and was relieved to see I responded differently than what he expected...

He also told me his sister is getting a divorce. That was no surprise for me. She is a typical WAW, that has an A, and thinks her H of 20 years is no longer good enough for her. Mind you this is her second affair. Listening to him teling me the news, gave me the creeps (?sp?), I was thinking "I dont want this to happen to me down the road" and I know he was thinking the same thing "if we can fix this or if we are just kidding ourselves, buying time". That moment, I stopped my thoughts from depressing me and went the "if soemone can do it, we can, yes WE can" road. I think that was another surprise for him, "no effect to US because of THEM".

I am not saying things are great, or even good, but things are better. For me at least. I am doing my best and it is very soothing.
K

[fb2]

You sound more on the + side. I'm wondering: (1) why does he still keep those files and e-mails form the OW if he's really DONE with her? (2) Does he know you know about these files? Perhaps its time to address this head on, including openenly resolving the issues of sex and the kids rather than let all this continue to brew.

I'm getting the impression (1) H is often afraid of you; not that you can do him any harm. But he is constantly trying not to rub you the wrong way as he cannot deal with it when you get emotionally upset. He does not really know where he stands with you. He rather be quietly gone a few days than risk being subject to molten lava from an emotional volcano which he does not have the skills for. He does not feel at home yet. (2) You are actually constantly judging, analyzing, and expecting every little thing related to him and that's adding a lot to the tension. Perhaps you can try to understand how *he* feels about this or that and that would break the ice a bit. Remember that so far you are the much bigger person in this journey.

[Kalni]

(1) you are right, he said so, he acts so. Dont know what to do except not attck him and be "friendly and easygoing". I know he doenst feel at home yet, I am working on that.
(2) you are not right about that. Our interactions are from my side, relaxed and trying to boost hie ego. Not always, not when I hit a low but 80% of the times. I am actually very empathetic (?) to his emotional state. I would be even more so if I knew what it is exactly.

The reason I didnt ask him about those emails is because I dont want to be like you said :"constantly judging, analyzing, and expecting every little thing related to him and that's adding a lot to the tension". ANY discussion about it, no matter how "user friendly" I try to make it, it pushes him to the edge, he becomes defensive and scared adn withdraws just as you described it. I figured, we cant talk about these things right now. We first need to establish some kind of solid foundation/environment where we both will feel safe. I may be using the MC time for that and only then.
fb2, I dont know if he is really DONE with her.

[awest1217]

I feel for you. Especially in your situation, it has to be hard to believe and trust that H really is completely done with OW. You however are doing an awesome job. I think you have really found a new sense of resolve in what you are doing now, and focusing on the present is very good. Leaving the past for the MC is good so that she can make sure to mediate everything so it doesn't get too heated.

Live in the present and keep doing what is going to make you happy. It seems to be drawing H closer as you are happy because he is less threatened (same issue I have with my H...he is scared of me).

Be happy!

[Forrest Gump]

"So what are we mortals to infer from this profound observation?"

"I am at work, just talked to H. He is coming back tomorrow. I am not surprised to say that I am much much calmer since he left and that I wish things were simpler between us because it burdens me with stress."

"I have built this protective wall around me with hurt, anger and failed expectations and when he is around, my senses are on red alert all the time. I cant even begin to tell you how frustrating and tiring that is."

So already.. She knows that things are "different". Yet she just keeps on. To a point.. this is "more of the same".

"He sounds...flat. Not very excited about coming home but he misses the kids."

How would you "react" to someone that has a wall up? You want to be there.. but not really? This is most likely what caused all this in the first place.

"I know neither of us is in love."

Strong statement. Here I was being a DAM and thinking Kalni was doing all this cause she still loved that DAM. Silly me.

"I am only going to try to communicate my thoughts and needs in a better non threatening way."

Many times I have heard this.

"The fact is we could turn this around if we BOTH do our part of the job. I have to accept that the way he is doing or can do his job is not my way. But that should not be my focus."

Confusing statement.

"I have to accept that the way he is doing or can do his job is not my way."

This is your mission.. if you choose to accept it. If that moves you closer to the "goal" then you "Do" it.

"She used the sex card alot."

Sound familiar. What are you looking for? Did it work?

"I am not saying things are great, or even good, but things are better. For me at least. I am doing my best and it is very soothing."

So what does that tell you?

"I dont know if he is really DONE with her."

In the end.. who cares?

He clearly is not DONE with you either.

I have faith the best woman will win.

Mere Mortals!

[Kalni]

Forrest,
We are not IN love with each other. We love each other, I think, but not IN love with each other. We feel more like family members living in the same house.

When I express my hurt, he hears attack, when I express my sadness, he hears threat. I am careful when I talk but it seems he is walking on eggshels SOOO bad and he EXPECTS me to be nusty that overlooks reality, which is, I am ONLY communicating my struggle to him.

Of course I have to admit that I am not consistent, I am negative one week, postive the next, he doenst know what to expect and knowing him, he HATES that, it throws him off balancee. He likes predictable things. I like being more consistent too. That's what I have been doing since he left for S. Africa, 2 weeks go. So far it seems to be going better.

Sex card sounds familiar? I have NEVER used the sex card with him. Not that I remember, I missed your point.

I know that between men and women we have to allow the different forms of expressing emotions, thoughts etc etc. I get sometimes stuck to the notion "if it were me I would have done so and so...". I keep reminding myself that's not the way it works...
K

[mishka422]

((((((((((((((Kalni)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

Unfortunately, I have nothing helpful to say, but I am reading along and hoping for you and your H. This has to be the most gut-wrenching piecing I've ever read but hopefully you will both pull through this time stronger and with better R skills. I know you have certainly grown a lot through this because you worked hard at it. Maybe it will rub off on him.

[Forrest Gump]

"We are not IN love with each other. We love each other, I think, but not IN love with each other."

This is something that every LBS has heard. Time and time again they are told.. don't pay attention to it. Being back in "Love" takes time. The mere act of sticking thru and trying to make it "work" is a sign that you are still in Love with him.

"When I express my hurt, he hears attack"

Ok, I understand. But what can you do to change that? How do you approach the "express hurt"? Remember you already have a wall up. People that know you can "see" that. You have to find a new way to "hide" it. (The Wall) People respond to "giving" better. In this stuff you sacrifice more than you get back at times. It is part of the game.

"I am careful when I talk but it seems he is walking on eggshels SOOO bad and he EXPECTS me to be nusty that overlooks reality, which is, I am ONLY communicating my struggle to him."

Again, he is still using the thoughts and process from times past. To be honest it is all he knows. As I have said many times before I can only talk to you. I can only guide you or offer suggestions to you. Again.. that makes you the leader in the situation. I my mind anyway. If you have to get "naked" (relating to my favorite DB.com story) to change things then do it.

"Of course I have to admit that I am not consistent"

Honestly.. you have been very consistent from what you are writing here these past few days(months,years?). You need to focus on what has worked. We have talked about them a few times before.

"he HATES that, it throws him off balance"

It has the same effect on you. Just look at what you are writing.

"He likes predictable things."

Be predictable differently. Surprise him with an action/reaction.

"I have NEVER used the sex card with him."

It is an underlying issue with you. I want him to hold me, kiss me, touch me. You may not be forcing it but it is a thought process that can drive some actions. Be careful with that in the light of the emails from the "girlfriend".

"I keep reminding myself that's not the way it works..."

Keep reminding yourself that you can make it work. Find the value in his actions that are good and feed off that. It is just as easy to do that as it is to feed off the negative value in his actions.

You have the opportunity and the know how and the gumption to change this and make it work. You just have to always be playing the game.