Just realized I did not answer your question. Nothing stopping me from making an offer. But, I may lose some strategic advantage by showing my cards and her L won't negotiate outside mediation b/c "this is how he does it.". I'm a L and I can tell you that's BS. Either he is having control issues with his client or he is lazy. And I don't think he's lazy.
Nothing stopping me from making an offer. But, I may lose some strategic advantage by showing my cards and her L won't negotiate outside mediation b/c "this is how he does it."
Who says you have to show ANY cards. Bluffing has been a way of winning a poker hand since the beginning of time.. Bluff her.. Her lawyer is obviously doing some bluffing and it seems to be working on you. Get the upper hand here.
Go for everything. All in. They need to see you getting strong, resolved and tough here. Your attitude should be the one she is taking. (look how her attitude is effecting YOU) Take charge.
Who says you have to show ANY cards. Bluffing has been a way of winning a poker hand since the beginning of time.. Bluff her.. Her lawyer is obviously doing some bluffing and it seems to be working on you. Get the upper hand here.
Go for everything. All in. They need to see you getting strong, resolved and tough here. Your attitude should be the one she is taking. (look how her attitude is effecting YOU) Take charge.
Go all in for yourself, she gets to unilaterally make a decision that will effect you, her, the kids and your family for the rest of your life. F that. Why should she get anything? Ask for it all - custody, all the money, the house etc. Show your kids you will fight for your values, if your W wants to quit then let her but there are consequences - serious ones.
To quote Rambo, "She drew first blood." Show your teeth. You lose a lot here if you don't protect yourself. OK she's depressed, MLC, menopause (have empathy) but she is suing you for divorce. (The Brutal Reality) My favorite professor used to give us a quote for the day, here is one: "The hangmans noose tends mightily to focus the mind." Let her have all the consequences of killing your marriage and family. It is her decision let her own it.
No anger or spite just resolve. This is what you want then I will give it to you in spades. Let your L be the hammer. Own the 4th quarter.
M22,H45,W45 S21/18D12 Retain faith that you will prevail in the end, regardless of the difficulties and at the same time confront the most brutal facts of your current reality, whatever they might be.
Actually GIMA, your wife is being quite wise in letting her lawyer handle things for her. You would be wise to let YOUR lawyer handle things for you. Is there anything stopping YOU from making an offer first?
You would be wise to stop trying to force her and pressure her (pressure does NOT work) into making decisions without her lawyer. You would be wise to drop the issue and tell your lawyer to take control here and do what he has to do. If you do that, when things don't go her way, you can use the same excuse she is using.. which is "I will have to talk to my lawyer."
GIMA - This sounds a lot like my sitch in the beginning of the "negotiations". While I basically sucked at DBing, I am happy with the way I handled this part. I'll give you a very brief description and then you can filter out what applies:
With my L, I put together a big proposal in the beginning of negotiations on how I saw it playing out. Quite honestly, it was an incredibly generous offer made mostly out of fear. It was offering to split everything including time with the kids and all finances. When I saw how my XW and her L reacted to it (like they were insulted), I told my L to take that offer off the table and now we were going to fight it out. I wanted full custody of the kids and everything else was secondary and would be a result of that. I then served my XW immediately. I never, ever again spoke to or engaged in a conversation regarding our D. It was treated as strictly business at that point whether she liked it or not.
Up to that point I was so concerned with what she would agree to. My L at one point said to me, "what do you want?" She told me that I never expressed it. But I wanted the kids, and quite frankly, I deserved them. So that is how we proceeded. That 50/50 split was taken off the table and never addressed again. Rather than playing defense, we went on the offensive. I no longer cared what she wanted. I thought about what was best for the boys. I thought about what was best for me. Everything changed.
I wasn't interested in reconciliation at that point. Too many bridges had been burned. But I can tell you that she had nothing but respect at that point and completely caved. Her L basically cut a deal and we let them save just a little face. In the end she got less than 10% of that original 50/50 offer.
I'm not telling you that you should do anything that I did. My point is that the D part really needs to be separate from any DBing that you are doing. Unfortunately, it is a business interaction. You need to cut a deal that you will be happy with for the rest of your life. That needs to be your mindset. Now, with that in mind, who do you want taking control, her or you?? Talk to your L. Tell him or her what you want. And from here on forward, let your L represent you. I don't want to come across as pro D here. Please don't misinterpret. I just want to make sure you are protecting yourself. It's soo important. I know many people that didn't. I was lucky.
Mules
Strength and Honor. Always.
M 43 W 44 M 17 T 22 S16,12,9 Bomb 2/05/08 I served her 1/06/09 S'd 3/15/09 D'd 12/21/09
"Tough times don't last, tough people do." --My Dad to me years ago, me to my boys now.
I really can relate to your dilemma about showing too much too early when it is not on your terms (from a legal standpoint I mean). I know you are an attny so obviously you know more than us "non attny's" but on an emotional level I can relate.
My attny (who started practicing law the year I was born so he has some experience, lol!) told me that in all his years of practicing law the ONLY attny he has EVER had deny him a "sit down" with clients is my H's attny. Of course, my H's attny was under no obligation to sit down with us and see what could be worked out before all the court stuff happened but it's not uncommon. My H's attny simply said "he doesn't work that way".
It became a very sick game because my H's attny knew full well what my attny and I "had" on my H and they tried to wear us down with tons of adjournments, not showing up, not filing the proper docs as per THE LAW and so on.
I understand due to your profession you may be more equipped to handle this but for non legal people it is very upsetting. I would venture to guess your W's attny knows you are an attny therefore is doing things a bit different as you already have a leg up when dealing with the law.
I know the negotiation game b/c I have to play it as part of my job. So, I know what is likely coming.
There is another possibility: that my W's L is having control issues. These could relate to getting her to accept what the likely outcome, financially speaking, is. I have had cases in the past where my client, or more commonly, the opposing party, refused to listen to their L.
Mediation can serve a purpose then by allowing an independent, 3rd party come in and tell the unreasonable client that their L is telling them the truth. Expensive and wasteful, but sometimes necessary.
Right.. I understood fundamentally what you were saying.
I was just trying to say (in a terrible fashion, lol!) that sometimes people think an ordeal is easier due to a profession.
My sister was a nurse for years. When my dad was sick in the ICU she was very comfortable being in the ICU wing. The machines, the beeping of the machines that never ended, being surrounded by illness and death, the codes, the urgency did not frighten her. It FRIGHTENED ME! It was a totally foreign environment to me.
And while she was sad to be there because it was our dad, the surroundings didn't phase her much.
So while you understand how the law works and what will take place and that is not scary to you as you are familiar with the process it does make you sad. You may not be scared to see a court document like I was but you are sad for the reasons it exists.
I was just saying I can understand how tough that would be!
