You did your best. Hold your head up. And it ain't necessarily over, either.
Thanks. I will.
The thing is, I actually think I could have had her back had I been able to consistently employ the right strategy. In my case, I needed to do my light, funny, flirty thing, coupled with complete detachment. She was intrigued by me, no doubt. She sought me out, she wanted to spend time with me. I just needed to maintain the air of complete detachment, and let her do the pursuing. That's where I failed, because I was hurting so much, and I was so distraught over our kids, that I'd react each time she'd give me hope, which kept degrading her attraction. I needed to hold the line, as gucci preaches, and I failed. At least I know I failed because of how much I loved her and my family, and how much I wanted my family restored, and my kids' pain to end. I can't regret that.
And yes, it's not necessarily over, but my hope is essentially gone. I just want to move on and try to be happy.
Can I ask you a favor? I don't know if it's possible... but could you put a spanner in the works of her plans? Those days in February... can you take leave? I mean... something always comes up urgent at work doesn't it? How about finding something that coincides with her days and say... "Sorry W, I can't. I have a course scheduled for that week and I can't cancel it." ... See where I'm going here? Shirt happens IRL. If you don't feel like going to the course, you can always cancel it at a later date.
Come on Future! You're NOT projecting an attractive option to her. Your words back to her were a little on the wimpy side. Become more assertive. Become demanding. PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN dammit! Don't back out of mediation!
Do you want to know what makes me FARKIN ANGRY about your W? She didn't have money to pay for the mediator right? So where the fark did she find this money now for an all expense paid funfest in Europe? If she's got money to burn... let the lawyers burn it. Your attitude should be, "Listen here you little hussy, don't come to a gunfight carrying a knife." From now on I get what I want, when I want it and if I want it. This is D. I'm putting ME first.
Sorry for the spew... I'm just trying to give you some pointers and hopefully stir you into action.
If I refuse to watch the kids while she goes, she'll just make other arrangements that will be harder on the kids. They'll stay with one of her friends or something.
I hear you though, and I am getting dam* fed up with her. Perhaps I should reply like this:
W, you realize you're not going to have any time with the kids for two and half weeks?! And this is after you BEGGED me not to take them anywhere after Christmas because you couldn't bear the thought of being away from them? And how are you paying for all this? You must have plenty of money, so I don't think you need the increase in support I was offering.
Also, know that if OM is in any way involved in this, you've just lost any chance of ever getting the kids passports, since you obviously lied right to my face when you said it was over and you weren't involved with him any more, and proved I can't trust you to be truthful with me."
If I refuse to watch the kids while she goes, she'll just make other arrangements that will be harder on the kids.
And that's why you'll cancel your arrangements at the last minute.
Hmm... your email sounds a little weak and needy. NOT ASSERTIVE enough. I've got to get something to eat and watch a movie... I'll try pop back in a little later and re-word it for you.
Hi future, your sitch does suck and I'm sorry to read of it. Part of it reminds me a musing post I put up some time back on how the betrayed spouse often as this need for a sense of empathy and justice.
I totally get how you need your W to tell you she is remorseful and she wants you / the M. The truth is sadly, proably closer to that of her not wanting to lose you as an option, a standby, a fallback. The way she feels right now just isn't in line with what your ideal may be. It's your call whether you want to hang in there and work on things till the day comes when she is closer to where you wish her to be.
As Puppy puts it, there are variations of the hard / soft stance, even many variations of when and how you apply them, and if you apply diferent tactics at different points of the sitch. If you look at knittedscarf's threads, she can arguably be said to have (perhaps unconsciously) used tough love and got results that many LBS would kill for. However, it seems it was more tough period than tough love, she wasn't just acting "as if". Whether one chooses to use the tough approach to get a result, and ease up in the acceptance of remorse / forgiveness part is unpredictable.
And don't buy any of your W's bullcrap for a second. People don't have As because of a broken heart, perhaps more of a broken conscience.
Me 42 W 39 Married: 11 Jan 1998, T: Since 1992 First Bomb: Sep 2007 Confirmed A/OM: 4 Nov 2007 Kids: D10, S5 Reconciled and together again after (alot of) time and heartbreak. 3rd kid, S, born 2 Jan 2010.
Hmm... your email sounds a little weak and needy. NOT ASSERTIVE enough. I've got to get something to eat and watch a movie... I'll try pop back in a little later and re-word it for you.
I wasn't going to send an e-mail response. I was planning on a verbal response, and was just throwing out ideas. Reading it back now, it doesn't sound right to me either. Perhaps I'll start by telling her I'm not sure if I can cover that whole period, and that I'll get back to her. And I won't say anything about where she's going. I may say something about how she obviously has plenty of money, and doesn't need an increase in support.
Hi future, your sitch does suck and I'm sorry to read of it. Part of it reminds me a musing post I put up some time back on how the betrayed spouse often as this need for a sense of empathy and justice.
Exactly. I guess I feel like if I got empathy and justice, it would take away my pain, but that's probably an illusion.
Quote:
I totally get how you need your W to tell you she is remorseful and she wants you / the M. The truth is sadly, proably closer to that of her not wanting to lose you as an option, a standby, a fallback. The way she feels right now just isn't in line with what your ideal may be. It's your call whether you want to hang in there and work on things till the day comes when she is closer to where you wish her to be.
Again, exactly. The timing of her reaching out to me over the past year coincided exactly with the times when her A was on the rocks. I was clearly her backup. It's so cruel, I don't even know if she's concious of it. And yes, she definitely isn't in line with my ideal. Do I want to hang in? Right now? No. I want to surround myself with people who value me.
Quote:
As Puppy puts it, there are variations of the hard / soft stance, even many variations of when and how you apply them, and if you apply diferent tactics at different points of the sitch. If you look at knittedscarf's threads, she can arguably be said to have (perhaps unconsciously) used tough love and got results that many LBS would kill for. However, it seems it was more tough period than tough love, she wasn't just acting "as if". Whether one chooses to use the tough approach to get a result, and ease up in the acceptance of remorse / forgiveness part is unpredictable.
Like I said in my previous post, I have a pretty good idea what would have worked in my case, but I didn't have it in me to stick with it.
Quote:
And don't buy any of your W's bullcrap for a second. People don't have As because of a broken heart, perhaps more of a broken conscience.
She wasn't talking about a broken heart from me, she was talking about OM. She was saying that she was brokenhearted from the end of her A, and so she wasn't able to offer me anything, and she didn't want to lean on me emotionally. So she was staying away, which I perceived as rejection.
W, you realize you're not going to have any time with the kids for two and half weeks?! And this is after you BEGGED me not to take them anywhere after Christmas because you couldn't bear the thought of being away from them?
Reworded: Our children are just about to face one of the most traumatic events of their lives. Do you think your leaving for 2 1/2 weeks is wise? What kind of message do you think you're giving them?
And how are you paying for all this? You must have plenty of money, so I don't think you need the increase in support I was offering.
You have no rights to demand explanations from her. The above sounds very "whining amd hurt" rephrase to:
First you tell me you cannot afford mediation and now you have the funds for a vacation? In light of these new developments, I'd like you to reimburse me for half the costs of the mediation and as of now am withdrawing my offer for increased support
Also, know that if OM is in any way involved in this, you've just lost any chance of ever getting the kids passports, since you obviously lied right to my face when you said it was over and you weren't involved with him any more, and proved I can't trust you to be truthful with me."[/quote]
TOO whiny again... rephrase:
If you persist with your vacation plans I will need a contact number for you 24/7 along with the address of all the places you are staying in case I need to contact you for emergencies. You have proven yourself to be a compulsive liar and a cheat, so my trust in you is BELOW zero. Should I find out you're still involved in any way, means or form with OM you can kiss the kids passports goodbye.
Hope this helps.
Last edited by Gnosis; 01/15/1005:11 AM.
M:11 | T:12 | Status: Married 4C's of WAS communication: Cool, Calm, Collected and CONFIDENT
I am sick today, so I don't have much energy to write.
My W is pushing hard to get our legal separation done. She is pestering the mediator, asking when they can get the papers done, asking how much money is required, etc. She has offered to pony up the money as soon as the mediator is ready.
I haven't replied to her request about the trip she wants to take. Also, she's not saying it's a vacation. She says she's signed up for a conference. That's my dilemma. She's intertwined her business with OM's country and city. That's part of the whole passport issue.
I am sick today, so I don't have much energy to write.
Sorry to hear that. Get well soon.
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
My W is pushing hard to get our legal separation done. She is pestering the mediator, asking when they can get the papers done, asking how much money is required, etc. She has offered to pony up the money as soon as the mediator is ready.
Dunno if there's anything you can do to delay that. If there is... go for it.
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
I haven't replied to her request about the trip she wants to take.
No rush. You've got some time.
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
She says she's signed up for a conference. That's my dilemma. She's intertwined her business with OM's country and city. That's part of the whole passport issue.
That's a tough one. I wouldn't bend on the passport issue.
