I'd like some input on our financial situation. A huge stressor right now is that H's recent business venture failed -- we have 5 figure debt now rather than the promised mortgage pay-off that H was expecting at xmas. I know that this is clouding the issue and making it a lot harder for H to figure things out. The debt crisis ties us together, but in a negative way.
I'm wondering if I should suggest that we re-mortgage our apartment (we have 6 figure equity in it) and roll our current debt into the mortgage. That would involve a financial penalty but I'm wondering if it would help H to focus on sorting himself out rather than initiating yet another ill-judged marketing venture. In the current economy, he's just not getting the payoff for the tremendous effort that he's putting in. The down side of the remortgaging idea is that it's not a wise financial decision in many ways, and that if we do divorce, we'll likely have to do something to the mortgage again and pay the penalty again within a short period.
The reason that I'm asking here rather than asking financial experts is that I'm hoping that y'all have some insight into how the finances might be playing into H's psychology and decision-making. I'm worried that he's feeling that it's all on his shoulders and that he can't possibly provide for our family, pay off the debt, and pay for a second residence all at once. I don't want him to be paralyzed by the financial stuff to the point where he is not dealing with his feelings, which is what he said that he wants to do (his stated reason for not taking the medication). The last financial crisis also precipitated H's sense of unhappiness with our marriage and pushed him to MC, but when the financial storm blew over he stopped being motivated to work on our marriage.
His father provided their family with a high standard of living and I think that it's really hard for H that he can't provide that.
Thoughts?
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
It certainly is important to know your H's stress triggers (money and providing for his family) and be sensitive to them. IMO that doesn't mean you need to fix them.
Reading your post above it seems he is more frustrated that he is putting his blood, sweat and tears in a business and not getting the financial return he thought he would get. And that alone is *very* frustrating when you work your ass off in a business. BUT anybody with an ounce of sense that starts a business needs to understand there is a very high probability that the business will not yield the profit they want/need and not having a fallback plan is reckless.
That alone could be the sense of failure and frustration he is feeling.
It is very good you are thinking of solutions to your financial crises. Solutions are a good thing and brainstorming ideas always is a great place to start!
The way I see it, one when person checks out of a marriage (in this case your H) no matter how many solutions you present to them for other life issues (in your case money) they are all band aids to the bigger problem.
Many, many people have lots on their plate... careers, schooling, children, extended family obligations, massive financial burden, having to work two jobs and so on. If those "outside" stresses really are the root cause of the marriage problems then both parties would be more than willing to fix/alter/repair the outside stuff to make the inside stuff better. While they may be contributing factors I don't think all that often they are the crux if the issue.
You said above your H struggles with the fact he cannot provide the same lifestyle as his dad did. Your H is a grown man. If he is still comparing something to his childhood the problem really is within him. Are you complaining about the lifestyle? If not then he is the one with the issue and he is the one that will have to own the issue.
I think many men (yes, I realize this is a generalization) measure their success as a man, husband and father by what they can provide. My H was very much like that. And while all those perks are nice (perks = extra stuff money can buy) most of the time what really makes them a success is too "touchy feely" for them as it requires self examination.
If you only have been separated for 11 days nothing has to be decided right now. IMO it's way to early in your situation to be thinking about such major moves.
Although it is a tough pill to swallow you can't fix anything with your H. If ALL your financial burden went away tomorrow can you say FOR SURE for the rest of his life your H will be 110% "all in" to work on your marriage forever? Right now you can only work on you.
Thanks CityGirl, you make good points. I know that removing the financial burden wouldn't solve the problems, but I'm concerned that he doesn't have the breathing space to do some self-care and get grounded. I think he had a nervous breakdown at Xmas, and had a lot of intense symptoms (severe insomnia, and he would start sweating or shaking if I approached him physically...but not in a sexual way).
I don't know how to manage the patience piece. I feel like someone just stole my life and my dreams and it's really hard to not take action and DO something.
I'm nervous about tonight. He saw a psychologist last night individually in preparation for us meeting with her jointly to develop a coparenting plan (I'll be seeing her individually as well). I'm worried that she might have pushed for reconciliation/counselling and that he might run from her/the process. Then he'll be pushing for formal mediation with me, as he has been since day one due to the advice of a very helpful <sarcasm> former family law attorney friend.
I miss him. I wish I could have a second chance.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
On the positive side: He shared that his insomnia was getting worse (after getting a bit better after he moved out). He also talked about a crisis that he had had with two friends yesterday, involving a miscommunication. He talked about how hard it was to be at work, just not giving a sh!t about the material that he used to be passionate about. He said that the psychologist who he talked to last night thought that his "attack" in December was triggered by anxiety, rather than depression, and that makes sense to me (though I believe he was also depressed). The physical symptoms of sweating, shaking, insomnia seem to jive with that. He was definitely opening up more than usual (since moving out), and treating me like a friend.
On the negative side: He was talking about some books that the psychologist had recommended that he read (coparenting-related I assume). He said he was going to buy them and I offered to get them out of the library for us both to read. He said "we're looking at spending $1000s of dollars on counselling, $10000s of dollars on lawyers, and dividing $100000s of dollars worth of assets, so spending $100 on books is no big deal". Said as if our divorce was a done deal.
I can't tell you how hard it was to active listen and say little during the positive stuff, and to bite my tongue and maintain a pleasant face when he was talking about our impending divorce. It's been less than 2 weeks! Trial separation my ---.
I held it together but it does feel really counterintuitive to not fight for what I want. I've always been a feisty, expressive person who has worn her heart on her sleeve. Sometimes that's been a good thing. Does anyone have thoughts on being authentic while DBing? My desire to save our marriage certainly is authentic. I think that I have really underestimated the damage that shooting my mouth off has done in our marriage. My guy is really tough on the outside and really vulnerable on the inside. He looks like he can take it, but I regularly forget that he can't.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
flowmom, I'm sorry you find yourself here, but it's a great place for support and to know you’re not alone. You H and mine sound like the same person. I'm new, so can't offer much advice, especially on the LRT. I'm not doing very good at sticking with that one, but every day is a new day.
The one advice that I keep hearing and it does seem to help me is: Don't believe anything H says and only half of what you see. This seems to help me when he says stuff to hurt me or that he has no intent on coming home and is ready to file.
It sounds like you have a lot to deal with, and I'm sorry for that. Nevertheless, hang in there, you will get through this.
Together 16 years Married 12 years Me 36 H 34 D9 & S6 Separated 12/3/09 Confirmed A 1/25/10 Exposed A 1/26/10 H hired L, but not filed yet 1/27/10
I am new here too (though more experienced as the bomb was dropped on me last July!) so these are just my thoughts but others here will soon give you more insight.
I've read from other resources that it is important to be genuine while working on M. It is important that we don't mold ourselves and allow ourselves to be molded based on what we think our S wants. At the end of the day, we have to look in the mirror and determine whether we like ourselves or not. And if we are not who we truly are, we will not like ourselves. If we are genuine, and our change is out of our own desire to improve and be a better person, then we can look in the mirror and greet ourselves.
I also believe that we might need to strive the balance between DBing techniques and what we know worked on our S. After all, we are the one who's been spending the life w/them and know who they are (well at least in the past)!
Thanks for the replies mb28 and BiBi. The support really helps right now.
Originally Posted By: mb28
The one advice that I keep hearing and it does seem to help me is: Don't believe anything H says and only half of what you see. This seems to help me when he says stuff to hurt me or that he has no intent on coming home and is ready to file.
I'll have to remember that. I need a way to absorb his matter-of-factly discussing our divorce when I am still in shock from his moving out.
BiBi, I like what you wrote about authenticity and DBing. It's time to get really clear on what's right for me.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
If you are not ready to talk about anything legal (divorce, separation) then simply tell your H :H, at this time I am not prepared to discuss anything further about a divorce.
Your H has had a long time to emotionally detach from the situation before he said a thing to you about wanting out. He is in a much different place than you and certainly should take all the time you need to "catch up".
I would not make myself so available to him and I would no longer offer to do him favors. Be very busy and create mystery. If he calls/texts/e-mails wait at least 24-48 hours to respond and when you do respond be vague, happy and upbeat. Let him wonder what you are up to. This will also give you some space from having to talk about something you are not yet prepared to discuss.
Setting healthy boundaries is very important. Working on you (you said shooting your mouth off was an issue for him) is all you can do. Validate his feelings even if you don't agree with what he is saying and do not participate in any sort of R talks, it's way too soon.
Are you 110% certain he is not having an affair of any kind? Between the divorce support group I have been a member of for almost two years, this site, my counselor and "real life" experiences when a WAS moves out and a week later begins talking divorce there is a reason they want out so fast.
If he is going to file then he is going to file. You are not obligated to "work with him" or HELP HIM get a divorce.
If you are not ready to talk about anything legal (divorce, separation) then simply tell your H :H, at this time I am not prepared to discuss anything further about a divorce.
He initiated talk about D, I didn't respond and the conversation didn't proceed from there.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
I would not make myself so available to him and I would no longer offer to do him favors. Be very busy and create mystery. If he calls/texts/e-mails wait at least 24-48 hours to respond and when you do respond be vague, happy and upbeat. Let him wonder what you are up to. This will also give you some space from having to talk about something you are not yet prepared to discuss.
This is tricky due to our frequent contact so that the children don't feel the impact of this as suddenly. I only initiate conversations about the children, and those issues must be discussed in my opinion. If he wants to confide in me as a friend, should I refuse that?
Creating mystery. Not sure if I'm ready for that. I'm not sure what GAL looks like for me right now. I've been subsumed in my parenting role, and right now I don't have a lot of time to GAL.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Setting healthy boundaries is very important. Working on you (you said shooting your mouth off was an issue for him) is all you can do. Validate his feelings even if you don't agree with what he is saying and do not participate in any sort of R talks, it's way too soon.
I think I'm doing the above, and only slipped on the R talk issue last Saturday night
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
Are you 110% certain he is not having an affair of any kind? Between the divorce support group I have been a member of for almost two years, this site, my counselor and "real life" experiences when a WAS moves out and a week later begins talking divorce there is a reason they want out so fast.
No, I'm not 110% certain. He knows from his past experiences that that just muddies the waters. OTOH, when I said that if he was dating I don't want my children to have any contact with the datee without my knowing about it, he said he had to think about it. I think he wants to have an affair, just hasn't started yet. Maybe there's an EA. It wouldn't be hard for him to find someone -- he's buff, "manly", and can be very charming.
Originally Posted By: CityGirl
If he is going to file then he is going to file. You are not obligated to "work with him" or HELP HIM get a divorce.
This part is tricky. The day he moved out he had picked a mediator that he wanted us to see. I stalled a bit, then came up with the alternative of seeing a psychologist to develop a coparenting plan. I feel very unequipped to deal with how to help the children through this. It's hard for me to think about them staying in his apartment which I've never seen, when he's never even looked after the children while I go out in the evening or all night.
I feel like I could use some professional support in guiding us through this and keeping the focus on the kids.
me: 42 | STBXH: 41 | T: 18 | M: 10 | separation: Jan 3, 2010 | they deserve better: S7 & D4 current thread: http://tinyurl.com/3y8sxcp .: first breathe, then heal, then start LIVING :.
I would proceed with caution. If he had a mediator all picked out the day he moved out there is a reason he is rushing through this.
I think it is important to have professional support. My point was you are under no obligation to assist your H in a divorce that you were not notified of until HE made the decision.
Acting like a friend and going along with his plan shows him very little consequence.
