Don't know where to post this.

[Gnosis]

BECAUSE I can see that you're doing the work, I'm more than willing to help -- as is everyone else watching your thread.

Take your time in doing your research. This is paramount to your sitch. I hope you're taking written notes (this helps your mind grasp the facts.) What will also help is to post what you have learned from SC's threads here along with what you think your actions will be.

You're going to get conflicting opinions as soon as you start posting. Don't get overwhelmed and feel forced to reply to all when they start coming in. Take your time to ponder what is read then map out your response.

This all goes to the 4C's... Cool, Calm, Collected & Confident.

[loveherstill]

Thank you Gnosis. I am learning form SC's threads and a few she references in her threads. I want to be better prepared when I come back, but I do not want anyone to think that I am abandoning this effort. I will crawl through hell and back and endure any pain necessary to save my M with my wife. Until the A I was responsible for about 90% of the marriage breakdown and it is up to me to fix it.

Thank you for all your help and I will continue to research so that I may love and live better for and with my wife.

[Gnosis]

I will continue to research so that I may love and live better for and with my wife.

As long as you don't let her treat you like a doormat while you're doing that.

[loveherstill]

W wanted to know the details of a online chat I had with a male mutual friend of ours that she broke the news to first. She thought that I am holding myself blameless for the breakdown of the M. This is the email I sent her.


W,

You wanted to know what I told B. It is the same that I have told all who asked. I will never deny any of my faults or wrong doings in the breakdown of our relationship. I will own 100% of my mistakes and will take the blame for probably 90% of the problems in our marriage.

I am working hard on me. It is a long slow process but I am committed to being a better man. I love you deeply and am deeply remorseful for the pain that I have caused.

If you can find it within you to give me a chance I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for my failings.

The following is my side of the chat conversation.

H




I do love her deeply and am committed to making the marriage work. She is an wonderful, beautiful, intelligent woman who I admire very much, even today. I wish she would hear me when I say it to her, but since I only started saying it to her again in late October, I should not be dumbfounded that it falls on deaf ears. Maybe with enough time she will hear me.

I believe that she is still confused and affraid that I cannot forgive her and take her back without being a complete d*ck and holding this over her head forever.

I can forgive completely. I treated her badly and help create this mess in a big way.

I have told others that I am proud of her and attracted to her, just not her. That is our biggest problem, I never told her because I am a "Dumb A$$ed Man"

I thought that I did not have to tell her because I provided financially for her. That was not enough.

Fighting for the ones you love is way harder than physically fighting. I would rather walk in one on one with chuck liddell than go through this with W, she has been a good wife and a very good woman.

I love her and know that we can have the marriage that we always wanted if we can just work on it. I am changing into a different man than I have ever been and it feels good. I will not fail her again if she gives me another chance and I want nothing more than to give her another chance

I do not want to run her down or destroy her reputation all I want to do is understand her and this situation and learn how to change myself to save this marriage. I want to save it for the children, her, and myself

I know. My deal breakers are different. She broke the wedding vow of not cheating, but I broke the vows of not honnoring and cherishing her (at least to her face, I always told others how proud I was but tore her down to her face). So both of us broke wedding vows (I broke mine for a longer period of time)

I am ready to fix it. I want to remarry her and keep my vows forever.

Let's face it, she had sex with others before we got together and I got over it. I can get over this as well.

The easy thing to do is give up and move on. The hard thing to do is to continue to fight for this marriage. That is ok. Nothing worth having is ever easy. You have to fight for what you want in life.

I want my wife and my family. I will crawl through hell and back before I give up as they are worth every minute of pain that I must endure.

Been caught on fire before and the pain was bad, but I would gladly do it again if she would only ask. I will prove that I am serious about saving this marriage.

If she has to go through hell to come out better I will carry her through so that she does not get burned. I love her and I am very sorry for ever hurting her. I will be better and strive to never hurt her again.

I am hurt and so is she. This is a great opportunity to grow and heal and learn together. I do not like the affair but for me it is a valuable learning tool. It woke me up and makes me want to be a better man.

This is not a deal breaker because the learning experience is way too valuable. I will not be able to forget quickly but I can and have forgiven. I do not want her to forget either. I only ask that she forgive. If we forget we are doomed to repeat our mistakes.

Her cheating is seen as a mistake by me. She is human and is allowed to make mistakes. I only want her to stop cheating now. I have made the mistake of destroying her self esteem and I must help to rebuild it. I will fight as hard and as long as it takes as I love her.

I have loved her since we were 14 and 16. I will continue to love her. I still think highly of her and am still trying to protect her reputation. I have told none of my family and have told no one that she did not tell first besides a couple of close trusted friends and her family members who would not pass judgement against her and decide that she was evil forever.

I do not think she is a bad wife. I do not think she is a bad woman. I think she is hurt and scared and confused. I am as well. She has always been a good wife. She has always been a good woman. She simply is making a mistake with the cheating as I made a grave mistake by tearing down her self esteem. We can heal together if she will allow it.

H

[loveherstill]

This is how I feel. The female friend that she was threatened by and her have been emailing lately and friend has told W that I love W very much and have said on more than one occasion how amazing my W was and that she was intelligent and beautiful.

W responded that the only reason she went to OM's arms in beginning was she was tired of feeling fat, ugly, and dumb.

I was an idiot. I talked my W up to everyone but my W. With her I projected my own anger at myself off on her and tore her down.

I was starting a new business and did not feel as though I was the type of provider that she deserved.

Still reading and studying SC's posts but just had to give a update.

[Gnosis]

Hmmm... your email was a bit over the top....

You wanted to know what I told B. It is the same that I have told all who asked. I will never deny any of my faults or wrong doings in the breakdown of our relationship. I will own 100% of my mistakes and will take the blame for probably 90% of the problems in our marriage.

I am working hard on me. It is a long slow process but I am committed to being a better man. I love you deeply and am deeply remorseful for the pain that I have caused.

If you can find it within you to give me a chance I will spend the rest of my life trying to make up for my failings.

The following is my side of the chat conversation.

Excuse me, but your W is no angel either. I would not have sent the parts in red You cannot claim that 90% of the marriage was all your fault. It's a 50/50 split.

The ILU is a no-no at this point in time. This is against DB principles and is seen as pursuit.

The request for another chance is also pursuit and is interpreted as begging. Begging your wife at this point lowers your value and her respect for you. Her RESPECT for you is KEY to your reconciliation. She reads this as, "Hold on... I cheated and he's begging me to come back? Whoa! How pathetic..." See? And I'm not calling you pathetic. I'm not here to judge you.

And finally... you did NOT owe her your side of the IM conversation. She would just have to take your word for it.

OK, 2x4's done.

Carry on reading SC's stuff. Remember... NOT ALL OF IT IS GOING TO BE APPLICABLE. From her thread you will get an insight into what could be your wife's state of mind.

[loveherstill]

If it would help I can post the emails between female friend and wife. Let me know. I do know that my wife is thinking harder than ever before. I am committed to being the best me I can be for her and my sons. This will not happen quick but it will happen consistently. One day you are hit hard with a 2X4 and you look in the mirror with clear eyes for the first time. You begin to realize that you hate the man looking back at you. You have no choice but to begin the journey towards becoming better.

This man was me in early October. I told W if she wanted to be free that my life insurance policy would allow it. She held me as I cried, as I was ready to give my life for her to have financial freedom. She told me no and told me that she loved me still and children needed me. She just did not want to be with me.

This compassion from her showed me hope. I had my rock bottom moment and I have been working on me ever since.

I have gone without a plan. I have tried to play with jealousy. I have backslid some. But all in all I have made forward progress on myself. Three steps forward and one step back (every now and again two steps back). 14 years of habit is tough to break, but I will either break my habits or break myself. This is for me and my children. She will also greatly benefit.

Not looking to be a doormat but I am not looking to have complete control either (I did for so many years).

Thank you

[loveherstill]

Thank you Gnosis.
Point taken.
She has stated she likes the ILY but only once or twice a day.
When I stopped saying it for 4 days only she panicked and ran to me screaming that I had abandoned her and that it is now over forever.

She has severe abandonment issues, as all men before me either cheated on her, beat her, or abandoned her (including her own father)

I feel reassuring her the way I feel every now and again is important.

I will not however try to call her and I will not hold her after she has seen OM.

Still working on boundries with this type of woman.

[Gnosis]

There is no need for ALL the emails and stuff right now. You're a pretty self-sufficient and intelligent guy.

Don't rule out jealousy... it can still be used... and can still be very powerful. The problem most people make here is that they don't use it at the right time and place. The jealousy button is a last resort technique. It requires guts to do. OK, so you used it without a plan... fine. Every one makes mistakes, it's how we learn. You've learned from yours.

There is a time and place for every thing. Don't rule out anything. Once you have something in mind and have laid out a plan, I will spend the time to read your entire thread, make notes and share them with you.

[Gnosis]

Boundaries are made for you. Boundaries are there for you to maintain your personal integrity.

With this in mind prepare yourself for delivering the following boundary to your wife:

While you continue your relationship with OM I feel cheap, used and taken for granted. I refuse to be treated like dirt and be your fall back plan after he has used you and kicks you to the curb when he is done. If you continue to disrespect me like this I will have no choice but to withhold my affections and feelings for you. The choice is yours to make. Before you make that choice I want you to know that I love you and I believe that we can make this work, but we cannot do this while there is a third party involved in our relationship.

And be prepared to ENFORCE the above when you deliver it. The above is off the top of my head.... and something for you to ponder.

As Rob pointed out to you before... this will be counter-intuitive and we will be triggering her pressure points (aka fears)