my W doesn't regret her affair

[BeingMe]

"Yes. And now that there's absolutely no chance for us, I'm sure that stings, doesn't it?" Then she walked away.

Your W is a pretty mean person. This is not the first time she has deliberately said something to hurt you, for no reason, other than you won't bow down to her wishes.

I would get going on that lawyer soon. She may've done so already.

And this "dysfunctional marriage" she keeps harping on --- she could've tried fixing it. I think there is something seriously wrong here --- an underlying feeling of selfishness and toughness. She would make a good salesperson. I think you are too close to the sitch, and from our perspective (if you are telling everything) she's not going to back down unless she is forced to do so by law. I rather feel sorry for the OM. I doubt he's getting the full truth just as you aren't either.

Protect yourself, and you protect your children too. She is their mother, but she will not hesitate to keep them from you, by the sounds of it. And, how can kids be travelling around the world, not going to school, etc. Sounds very unstable. And isn't it a little dramatic, with the world is her country (or whatever) and you won't deny her giving them that, yadda yadda.

[futureunknown]

Late Friday night after our meeting she called me and wanted to ask if the reason I was refusing to allow the kids to get passports was because I wanted to punish her or if I was really afraid she wouldn't bring them back. I told her there wasn't anything left in me that wants to punish her, then I told her the scenario I described, essentially word for word. She had to acknowledge that it did sound like her, but she reiterated she would not do that. She said she made her decision to live here, and that was one of the reasons she and OM ended things. I said "W, when you face a choice between your happiness or mine, you will go with yours." She said "I know. I made that choice and I stick by it, but I place the kids' happiness above mine." Not quite sure how she reconciles that with breaking up our family, but oh well. I said the best I could offer regarding the kids passports was to just not address it at all in our agreement, and leave it to settle later. The antagonism between us was much reduced, and we were back to our friendly demeanor toward each other. We chatted about a couple other things and said goodbye.

Then Saturday morning she was all warm and friendly. I went to watch my girls at gymnastics, and she walked up and said "Hi! If I knew you were coming I'd have gotten coffee and a donut for you too." Then she looked at me and asked "How are you?" I said "I'm fine. How are you doing?" She said "I'm ok. I really want us to be ok." I put my hand on ther shoulder for a moment. She said "I admit I do get dug in about things, but I wouldnt do that to you." She was referring to the scenario I described the night before.

After gymnastics she invited me to go shopping with them for a while before my son's basketball game. I walked through a couple stores with them. Then we left to go to the game, which I am coaching again. She was warm and friendly throughout the whole thing, then left with the kids.

This morning she dropped off the kids and was friendly again. She asked if I checked my e-mail yet, and I said no. She said she put together a counter proposal and e-mailed it to me, and she asked if I'd look it over and let her know if it was ok so she could relax and enjoy the rest of her Sunday. She said "Don't be scared, it's a good e-mail." I smiled and said "I'm not scared."

I checked my e-mail and read her proposal. She agreed to soften her stance on the child care with her mother. She agreed to my counteroffer on the child support, and she agreed to drop her request that the kids get passports. She said we could leave it for later. She said she didn't feel she needed to or wanted to tell me anything about her life, but just so I knew where she was coming from, she said she is getting certified with a particular kind of training that is needed worldwide, and that she wants to use that to take 4-5 international trips each year. She wants the option to take one of the kids with her on each trip to expose them to different cultures.

I replied and told her I thought we could come an agreement on child care, but I also told her I thought her resentment toward her mother is affecting her decision regarding whether her mother watches the kids for me. I thanked her for dropping the passport issue, and I thanked her for telling me why it was so important to her.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

No real advice for you this morning, Future, but I just wanted to say that I LOVED this line:

I said "W, when you face a choice between your happiness or mine, you will go with yours."

SO true!!!

Puppy

[futureunknown]

Thanks Puppy. Being able to say those types of things to her in a calm and matter of fact manner convinces me that I am making progress, which is good.

[futureunknown]

Your W is a pretty mean person. This is not the first time she has deliberately said something to hurt you, for no reason, other than you won't bow down to her wishes.

She does lash out, for sure. Always has. I learned to just let it bounce off.

I would get going on that lawyer soon. She may've done so already.

She has contacted a lawyer. She told me so. She said her lawyer assured her a judge would order me to allow the kids to travel overseas with her.

And this "dysfunctional marriage" she keeps harping on --- she could've tried fixing it. I think there is something seriously wrong here --- an underlying feeling of selfishness and toughness. She would make a good salesperson. I think you are too close to the sitch, and from our perspective (if you are telling everything) she's not going to back down unless she is forced to do so by law. I rather feel sorry for the OM. I doubt he's getting the full truth just as you aren't either.

Yeah, she hangs onto this notion that our M was unfixable. Pretty funny for a MC to say that to her own H. My W is a brutal mix. She has many positive attributes. She's smart, and fun, and interesting. However, loyalty and committment are not very strong qualities in her, which is tough for me to accept. And yes, I agree, there is no way she was truthful with OM either.

Protect yourself, and you protect your children too. She is their mother, but she will not hesitate to keep them from you, by the sounds of it. And, how can kids be travelling around the world, not going to school, etc. Sounds very unstable. And isn't it a little dramatic, with the world is her country (or whatever) and you won't deny her giving them that, yadda yadda.

My friends think she is unstable too. She is a dreamer, always has been. She'll make all these plans to make one dream happen, but then her whims change, and her plans wither and die.

[musclegal]

Future, from her perspective she is being so MATURE and CORDIAL when she's not being mean to you. The shopping and donuts aren't an attempt to reconcile. She's trying to have her grown up self dictate her actions when she does that, and she is trying to have a cordial post-divorce relationship with you.

I'm getting that from my husband, too. Its crazy. The niceness won't stay if you get emotional with her or if you critize her in any way. Just keep your distance and calmly look after your own interests.

Its really hard not to take it as a mixed message, but LET HER BE NICE TO YOU. You do need to have a cordial post-divorce relationship for the kids. Figure out how to "tap into" her grown up self in that regard and just stay there. But don't let it build up your hopes. You have to focus now on moving on emotionally for yourself and having a grown up way of dealing with your W for your kids.

[futureunknown]

I am such a mess. I keep going round and round, beating my myself up, making myself doubt that I did the right thing by taking a harder line. She was reaching out to me, she had our family pictures up in her living room, she ended it with OM, and she didn't want to proceed with the legal separation. What I was missing was her giving me any kind of declaration that she didn't want to lose me and/or our marriage, and an expression of remorse over the pain she caused me. She was angry and irritable over her loss of OM, and offered me nothing other than negativity about our marriage. Even if she wanted to reconcile, and she has now admitted to me that she was considering it, I knew our M could never be truly reconciled unless she gave me what I needed.

Now she is angry, she never contacts me, the pictures are gone from her living room, and she is pushing hard to get the legal separation done. She said to me "You will never forgive me. No matter what I do or say, you'll never let it go. You'll always hold it over me." She did also say "H, there is an easiness between us that's nice, but it doesn't make what's hard any less hard." When I said "W, you gave me nothing that made me believe your feelings for me or our M were any factor in your decisions." She replied "You didn't ask." I said "Why didn't you tell me?" Is that what this has all come to? It's insane!

I just got an e-mail from her saying that she's going out of town for ten days at the end of February, and is asking if I can watch the kids during that time. I assume she's going to see OM again, although I have no way of knowing, nor am I sure I want to know.

I so much want to let all this go and move on with my life! I've got nothing left to deal with this. Other areas of my life, and other people in my life are so great, so supportive, and make me feel good. Why can't I just let her go? All I get from her is misery.

[Gnosis]

Future, I feel for you man.

I am such a mess. I keep going round and round, beating my myself up, making myself doubt that I did the right thing by taking a harder line.

You did the right thing.

She was reaching out to me, she had our family pictures up in her living room, she ended it with OM,

Really? How do you KNOW she ended it with him? Do you have proof of this?

and she didn't want to proceed with the legal separation.

For her own selfish reasons. She wanted a relaxed holiday period and you hanging on the hook.

What I was missing was her giving me any kind of declaration that she didn't want to lose me and/or our marriage, and an expression of remorse over the pain she caused me. She was angry and irritable over her loss of OM, and offered me nothing other than negativity about our marriage.

Those were her ACTIONS.

Even if she wanted to reconcile,

IF is the KEYWORD.

and she has now admitted to me that she was considering it,

What she said and did are two VERY DIFFERENT things. Keep that in mind.

I knew our M could never be truly reconciled unless she gave me what I needed.

Rest with the knowledge that she didn't give you that.

Now she is angry, she never contacts me, the pictures are gone from her living room, and she is pushing hard to get the legal separation done.

She's reacting. She is intentionally going ALL OUT to hurt you with everything she's got.

She said to me "You will never forgive me. No matter what I do or say, you'll never let it go. You'll always hold it over me."

Weren't you the one that said to her, "W, you don't know what I'm thinking or how I'm going to react," or something along those lines?

She's saying those things to justify her actions.

She did also say "H, there is an easiness between us that's nice, but it doesn't make what's hard any less hard."

Stop being Mr Nice Guy.

When I said "W, you gave me nothing that made me believe your feelings for me or our M were any factor in your decisions."

EXACTLY.

She replied "You didn't ask."

BULLSHIRT!

I said "Why didn't you tell me?" Is that what this has all come to? It's insane!

I just got an e-mail from her saying that she's going out of town for ten days at the end of February, and is asking if I can watch the kids during that time. I assume she's going to see OM again, although I have no way of knowing, nor am I sure I want to know.

Uh huh. True colors are starting to show...

I so much want to let all this go and move on with my life!

It's not easy FUN. It's not easy. It comes with time and keeping busy with other things.

I've got nothing left to deal with this.

Bullshirt again... at the very least you've got people like me willing to wield 2x4's in your direction and call you out.

Why can't I just let her go? All I get from her is misery.

Because you haven't done the essential exercise of undergoing a full on PURGE.

Can I ask you a favor? I don't know if it's possible... but could you put a spanner in the works of her plans? Those days in February... can you take leave? I mean... something always comes up urgent at work doesn't it? How about finding something that coincides with her days and say... "Sorry W, I can't. I have a course scheduled for that week and I can't cancel it." ... See where I'm going here? Shirt happens IRL. If you don't feel like going to the course, you can always cancel it at a later date.

Come on Future! You're NOT projecting an attractive option to her. Your words back to her were a little on the wimpy side. Become more assertive. Become demanding. PUT YOUR FOOT DOWN dammit! Don't back out of mediation!

Do you want to know what makes me FARKIN ANGRY about your W? She didn't have money to pay for the mediator right? So where the fark did she find this money now for an all expense paid funfest in Europe? If she's got money to burn... let the lawyers burn it. Your attitude should be, "Listen here you little hussy, don't come to a gunfight carrying a knife." From now on I get what I want, when I want it and if I want it. This is D. I'm putting ME first.

Sorry for the spew... I'm just trying to give you some pointers and hopefully stir you into action.

[BeingMe]

Look, she crossed the boundaries, and she knows it. Now, she wants you to be pleasant about it. What world is she living on? Forgiveness takes time. And it needs a person capable of being sorry for what they did. Note: your Subject Title. Why would you need to forgive something she doesn't regret.

She is manipulating you. I can only assume, so that she can get whatever she wants with just a smile and a little bit of pleasant interaction. She didn't tell you that she was thinking of getting back --- because she wasn't. She lied. Why didn't she say so before you had to set up your boundaries and start moving on?

You don't see this very clearly because you are too close to the sitch. But, we on this remote forum, who only go by what you say, can see it. If you are telling the truth, then she is not. She is playing the game of getting as much out of Future as she can before signing the divorce papers.

In my opinion, of course. Take care.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

In mine too.

The true character of a person shows by how they treat you, when they are not in a position to GET anything from you.

Puppy