Help w MLC / WAW... Jack 3 Beans?

[bradley11]

Old Pilot-- you are wise

wish I read this this am-

indeed she is seeing me leaving, and it woke her up a bit.

she said that though he is just a friend and there were no sexual relations she is cutting off ties with him today. I was planning on getting a PI... because if this thing goes to divorce I want data. but now with her saying that.. I'm not sure.

she still was trying to drag me in to R talks and I just kept repeating the same thing. "I would love nothing more than to have a relationship with you and for us to be a family"... then she'd twist my words and all this stuff, saying how she'd just go back to doing what she did before (laying guilt on me for taking away her new life)... I validated, and also validated that I realized our sex life sucked and how if given the opportunity I would make it my job to satisfy her (not sure that was keeping distance). I don't know--- I'm still emotionally keeping my distance but at the same time you can't be all Heisman-- right? Isn't the end goal reconnecting?

who here thinks if she wants to come down for the weekend, and if she wants "it" should I give it up? would it be better to try and continue reconnecting without allowing the sex to come in? or should we go at it.. I'm favoring the latter

[cat04]

ok so, those boys are the boys of the OM. I knew, deep down, if I heard about a "sleep over" when I was gone, that most likely that would be a cover up to allow the OM to stay.

Did this really surprise you?

she gets angry, defensive, and says stuff like "well I was just about to say that I was going to bring the boys down next weekend when you are on call, but now I don't think so"...

You caught her in a lie. Of course she got defensive. IMO, not a good idea to allow her to use the kids as a weapon if you can prevent it.

but the main thing, was as J3B said, was to cowboy up.

I know you like Jack's advice, but I think you might be missing his point.

could be nothing but it is a slap in MY face.

There will be many more of these in MLC.

so all of this snooping, while some of you think is counter productive, was very helpful to me,

Was it really?

I see a life ahead of me now, where I didn't before. That is key.

What sort of life? One with a D in the future? Or one where you try to force her to stay? I am confused.

what page is that? the cheating pathalogical liar page?

MLC. The L can stand for Lying.

what I don't really understand is why and how people are able to get past that.

Some can, some can't. Only you can decide if you can.

If you can't, and you know it, there is no point in trying to save this M.

there that I think I could love, and I still think we could be a family... but things will have to change significantly with her with regards to her wanting to actually try.

This is not going to happen any time soon.

Bradley,

This is not something that is going to resolve itself quickly. Especially if you decide to approach this from a place of anger. It sounds to me like you are trying to do just that right now. Yes, it helps with the pain. Temporarily. In the long run, if you hold onto it, it will just make you bitter.

Do you best to really try to understand MLC. It will help you to decide how YOU want to do this.

[bradley11]

Ok Cat-

I will try and do as you said-

yes- I really feel like the snooping was helpful to me, because the agony of not knowing was killing me-- I needed to know.

as for life with marriage or d-- I am open to either. but I am ok with d...

ok- thanks for the reminder about the time issue...

I'm not sure I'm approaching this from a place of anger. you may be right. but the bottom line is I had to take control of my life and the situation-- though she has figured out a way to get control again-

called me this morning after the first phone call to say... so how do I go about my day? I mean... how manipulative can you be?

I'm walking this fine line of detaching, but yet knowing that her main complaint of me was that I was not a part of her life... thus continued detatchment is not productive towards us reconnecting. so I'm trying to figure out how to deal with that and still maintain control...

[kjensen]

Cat has some great points I would add that when you can transform the anger you (understandably)feel into compassionfor your W, you will understand how/why many of us stand through all of the BS of MLC.

Forgiveness and compassion are key to any chance of saving these marriages and they don't come easily. It takes some real internal work, but the rewards are for YOU.

This is a long process. Its easy in the beginning to hope you are the exception, to fall back in the mindset of this is just infidelity and not truly understand the different animal MLC is. So as Cat said, learn all you can about MLC and it may help you not take 'the script", the lies, the irrationality so personally.

In the MLC archives are links to some great info...if you haven't checked them out, I would.

As far as the weekend..decide what you are comfortable with, let things progress naturally and go from there. If sex was an issue, then reconnecting through sex may be a good thing-only you will know...

Hang in there!

[cat04]

B,

Don’t do it just because I or anyone else said so. Do it because it is what will help you through this. You will realize that in time.

Learn to recognize the script because you are hearing it.

Detatchment, although different for everyone, to me means that you are unaffected by the things they do. When you see or hear something, you don’t have that panic attack, you don’t get super angry and can’t get rid of it, you might have an emotional reaction, but it passes. Pretty quickly.

When my H finally admitted to his GF, to wanting to date her (he had been for almost 3 years mind you), yes I got angry. For about 20 minutes. It was the lying that made me angry. But then, when he saw that it upset me, he asked me “how can I do this? How can I date her now?” Because he was conflicted. He wanted my blessing. Well, even now, I can’t say that I am happy about it, and I was not going to tell him HOW to do it. That is something he has to figure out. But I did tell him, if it is what you want, then do it. You figure it out.

I have a question about the snooping. Ok now you know. Are you, at this point, going to continue to snoop? Are you going to continue to hurt yourself with the evidence or do you have enough? That is the reason, one of them anyway, that we say don’t snoop. Because you just end up hurting yourself. And it does not help to get rid of the anger.

This is just a process. None of us want to believe it can really take years. We all come here thinking we will be the exception to the rule. For some of us, it is a shorter road, but I have not seen too many MLCs that end quickly. Just go look at people’s registration dates. Read their stories. This takes a long time. In the end, no matter which way your sitch resolves, if you take the time for you, you won’t regret it.

Here is a thought, since you are a Dr. You understand the body. How much of your studies were about understanding psychology? Psychological disorders? I am sure you actually have more resources readily available to you than some of us. Try to understand depression, repressed anger, ptsd. All of that knowledge can be applied here and will help you understand MLC.

I know that right now you are hurting. You had a panic attack, guess what that was…

A physiological reaction to a psychological situation.

Read, learn, understand. The mind and the body do NOT work independently of each other. This could actually make you a better Dr in the end.

[bradley11]

KJ and CAT-

I am starting to hear what you are saying-- even feeling it a little this morning.

its amazing. for 6 months I rolled over and believed all the manipulitive crap that she told me, and now (after a weekend with people who love me) I realize how much of it is just crap-- some of it is true though. Now I validate what is true but when she says crap I call BS

unbeliveable how she tries to maniuplate and dicate the conversations. now that I have a backbone I see how she does it-- uses fear tactics. "so we aren't going to talk at all...that is what you are saying?" previously I'd allow that tactic to work-- but not anymore. and I said, "no, not at all" but I was ok with not talking to her-- because I know now that I cannot let her problems and her whole deal consume me. I have to let it go.

She said, "how do I go about my day?" I called her back to say I thought she should put her phone away. om essentially kept her constant companionship throughout the day by the umbilical cord of the iphone. I told her I thought this was not helpful for her personal quest to learn to be within herself. I told her to turn off the phone and put it away... this was accepted, but then she started turning stuff around, trying to make things ugly-- when i said, why don't we go old school and you can page me. YOU NEVER ANSWERED MY PAGES. this time I did not validate, told her that is unfair, untrue... and all that. so I've got a spine again.

what I realized this morning is that I am married to someone who is actually mentally ill. that is tough to take. but it does allow me to become compassionate.

I'm trying to figure out how old she is... I'm guessing 13?

[bradley11]

cat-- your question about snooping.

Probably not. I'm still entertaining the idea of PI-- I want data if this goes to D and I'd want my boys.

but I needed to know the extent of her lies... now I know.

I can't say no for sure though, because I could predict allowing myself to open back up to her, thinking we are back on track, then getting suspicious, crazy, and snooping again.

[bradley11]

I oh and I didn't study much Psychology...

depression, repressed anger and PSD... sounds very familiar!

she's got all of it.

she has a therapist, but I think she has not been good for her at all... the therapist is not at all, from my take, family focused. who knows what the best kind of therapy is for MLCers, but this one seems to only give credence to all the lies and bs and has enabled her to do what she has done.

[cat04]

Down the road, if you are on a better track, she should be willing to show you that. No one says you go back into this with blinders on, but that is down the road.

If it goes to D and you feel you need ammo, that is your call.

I would advise, stop telling her how YOU think she should do anything. It is not up to you how she handles her life. Even if she asks. That is considered control and will be turned around at you.

Do not judge her therapist. That too is not your call. The only thing you can control in this is you. That doesn’t not mean be a doormat but you do need to remember this…

What you do now will not fix your M, but everything you do now may fix your M.

That may not make a lot of sense but it is true. As your W works through this, she will remember how you treated her during this. How you reacted, how you either tried to direct her, or how you were there to just listen, be her friend.

Knowing that what she says is untrue, is good for you because it helps you to not sink to your rock bottom, but you don’t have to throw it in her face each time either.

Validate, not defend. Show her that you are different. Don’t try to tell her, she won’t hear it right now. But she will see it. If it is true. Believe me, they know when it isn’t. That alien radar works really well.

[Cadet]

what I realized this morning is that I am married to someone who is actually mentally il

Now if this is true and it is a permanent disease you must look at your R past and present thru different eyes. MLC is not a mental illness. The depression associated with MLC is the mental illness.

My mother(77) is bipolar for 55 years maybe more. She has been medicated for maybe 40 years. It doesn't always help. So what I am trying to say is you need to evaluate the degree of the mental illness to see where YOU want to go.

But the detach/NC is the best thing for you in the long run.

KJ and Cat gave you good advice, listen, read and understand.