Don't know where to post this.

[TrentC]

OK, after reading this, you have far too many serious issues going on in your situation for me to help you with. She was raped and sexually abused. Has she ever gone to counseling to deal with these? You, and she, both need IC in addition to join MC.

She got involved with you, and you have demonstrated that you can be no better than the other men in her life; you're controlling and manipulative. Seeing a pattern here?

As far as the break it off slow thing, I agree but she has a hard time with this and has always either had to make a guy break up with her or let him down slowly.

No, that's how she has chosen to deal with it. And guess what? You're next in line.

She doesn't want to take responsibility for her feelings or her decisions; if you leave then she's the victim. She's blatantly disrespecting you to your face, hoping that you'll be just like all the other guys and take off on her.

OM is 40 never had kids, never had wife, makes very little money, lives in a single wide trailer, smokes (neither w or I do), balding, opposite of her prefered body type and drinks heavily.

Who will probably treat her like crap, too, once you're out of the picture. It's all she feels she deserves.

She only took the kids after I played a head game for jealousy and should have my teeth kicked for.

No, I think you're paying for that now.

[loveherstill]

She has left me to schedule all appointments with MC and IC and agrees that she has anger issues and other things to address in counseling but does not know how to schedule. She asked me to schedule the appointments. I was also asked to take care of her speeding ticket.

For me all I wanted out of the marriage was what she was giving me already before this all started.

What she wanted from me was to tell her I was proud of her and her accomplishments, that she was beautiful and the only woman in the world to me, and for me to listen to her when she had a complaint instead of shutting her down because I did not want to hear nagging.

I accept most of the fault in the breakdown of the marriage.

Since October I have been trying to make positive changes on most of these. I have become more soft spoken and understanding with every one, play more with the children when I have or see them, my anger is almost totally gone (had a temper and yelled alot before). She has noticed some of these changes and likes them but I think I have become more of an enabler.

I am seeing a pastor for my IC and have two sets of friends that went through this to draw help from.

I also pray 3 times per day and I am rediscovering my relationship with God. (Had not been to church in 16 years)

As far as the money, I am self employed and pay myself every two weeks. I just deposit less in our joint account and put more into my private savings. I do not want her to have extra money to play around on.

[loveherstill]

I am hoping that her IC will help her but her IC is also our MC. Any thoughts?

My IC is helping me and I don't want to leave her but I do not want to enable her either.

She does show me respect in some aspects of life but not when it comes to her A.

She has come out of the fog enough to stop demonizing me but now is demonizing herself and seems to be going through mild depression at times. I know she feels the guilt but has told others that she is afraid to come back to me because I can never accept her again and she is afraid to be alone.

I will stop texting or calling unless it has to do with the children and will not initiate sex or physical contact with her.

Should I not return calls and text? Should I stop accepting displays of affection? Or should I let them continue only when she pursues.

[Gnosis]

LHS, I can tell you right now that Rob's way as it stands will not be effective with your wife because of the abuse issues. Your wife does not fit into the typical category. You will need to tweak Rob's words to make them fit better.

Your wife DOES have issues, SERIOUS ones. She needs to see an IC who specializes in, and has had success with abuse victims, so choose carefully. NOTE: This will be for HER, not you.

The OM's appearance does not matter because your W's primary LL is "Words of Affirmation." If I'm not mistaken she will also suffer from issues of rejection and abandonment. This is going to be a delicate balance for you. "Going dark" is will trigger one, and as you found out, the "jealousy button" triggered another.

Can you tell us if what, if any, counseling she has had in for dealing with her past?

One final word of caution for you: DO NOT REACT OR ACT ON IMPULSE! Take your time and PLAN your approach. It has been going on since November. A few more days will not make a difference.

[loveherstill]

She has not had IC for any of the rape issues before. She has not had IC for the beatings before. Additionally almost all of her past boyfriends beat her. I was the first man to not ever hit her and I even rebuilt her self esteem. Then like an idiot I opened my mouth and tore it down.

[TooLateForMe]

For me all I wanted out of the marriage was what she was giving me already before this all started.

My lesson is that you should always be moving forward, adapting and evolving, in or out of a R. If you were settling for what you had, that was part of the problem.

What she wanted from me was to tell her I was proud of her and her accomplishments, that she was beautiful and the only woman in the world to me, and for me to listen to her when she had a complaint instead of shutting her down because I did not want to hear nagging.

Many of us are guilty of this. Lesson learned, hopefully. But I have a feeling this is primarily a symptom of a greater problem, one deeper in a person's personality. I think it's about not being deeply connected w/ your spouse.

I accept most of the fault in the breakdown of the marriage.

No. Accept YOUR mistakes and hers and don't put blame. Assigning a bad guy role to yourself is as fruitless and self-defeating as dumping the blame on your W. We each have specific character flaws that lead to where we are. Correct them in order to improve YOUR life.

STOP cuddling and making out w/ your wife as long as she is seeing OM!!! You don't deserve a divided marriage. It will destroy you. Just stop. When she innocently asks "what's wrong?" lay it out. Not mean or angry. You're not interested in sharing the love of your life with another man. If she's not interested in just you, let her know you're not compromising about this and will find a woman who will be with you and only you.

If you are willing to share her, let me tell you that I have seen plenty of open relationships. They have all ended in heartache and chaos.

[Gnosis]

P.S. For full disclosure:

If you're wondering what my credentials are? NONE.

I am NOT a counselor and have NOT had formal psychological training.

However, I do have extensive experience with women, including one who was abused as a child. That is what I bring to the table.

[robx]

You all are right about distancing. When I have cut off and stopped pursuing her she has ignored him and chased me. She has told me that she wants to be pursued.

What do you think? I am a little slow and may require a few hundred 2X4's to get in shape.

I don't know, maybe you are slow,
you found that you got a positive response by distancing yourself, limiting contact with your wife, etc. and then she pursued you but you ignored this response and continued to pursue her? Because she told you she wants to be pursued?

Regardless of what she says, I'll let you in on a little secret, she enjoys the pursuit, she's pursuing the OM and when you cut off contact with her, she pursues you: you have 2 examples of her wanting to pursue a man regardless of what she tells you. She gets bored of you pursuing her because she knows you want her, she can have you at anytime, but it's good for her ego to have 2 men at the same time, think about it, you mentioned she has low self-esteem, well it's currently getting a decent boost by having the attention of 2 men.

Remove yourself from this situation, regardless if you want to date other women or not, just limit contact with her, tell her she can have the OM but you're not going to be part of an open relationship with her and the OM from now on, you have too much dignity & self-respect to allow that to be part of your life. As for the kids, tell her if she wants to see the OM that's her choice but she isn't bringing the kids to see him anymore, that's your decision, you won't have them exposed to her crazy behavior and that environment with a stranger (OM) - that's just horrible for the kids to be exposed to that.

[loveherstill]

Gnosis,

You are 100% spot on. When I pulled away and went dark for four days she panicked and came running saying it is over because you don't love me. Abandonment is huge for her. She is also terrified of me finding a better woman and is jealous. Has even stated lately that she is a worthless woman and horrible wife.

I tried the jealousy thing hoping that it would make me more desirable to her and it worked some until I tried it with the long term female friend that she felt threatened by. Then abondonment and rejection issues started.

I believe still that she is a good woman at her core and until A she was an excellent wife (not great house keeper but perfect every other way). She was faithful for 13 years.

I have told her that the A is a mistake but does not undo 13 years worth of good. She is still a good woman. I just want the affair to stop.

I am here for the long haul and need help formulating a plan to get back on track.

She is starting IC and I have been in for about two weeks with my IC.

I want her to be mentally healthy for her and I need to fix me for me and my kids.

Also she had one ovary removed in June because of continual cysts. She is now surgically sterile and had trouble with turning 32. She changed hair style, hair color, dropped ties with her family (finally starting to reach back out some), dropped old friends (reaching out some). With all of this MC has said that she does not think MLC. I hope MC is right but we have only been to three appointments so far.

Help me formulate this plan Gnosis. Help from sandy and or greek would be good too.

[TrentC]

She has left me to schedule all appointments with MC and IC and agrees that she has anger issues and other things to address in counseling but does not know how to schedule. She asked me to schedule the appointments. I was also asked to take care of her speeding ticket.

What do you mean by "she doesn't know how to schedule"? She doesn't know who to talk to? Can't you give her that info?

You have a crazy power struggle going on. She wants to bang another guy and let him tell her how pretty she is, but she wants you to take care of her.

You're not her husband, you're her surrogate father.

For me all I wanted out of the marriage was what she was giving me already before this all started.

Which was what, exactly?

Like I said originally -- you two need to learn how to communicate better. But she has huge, unresolved issues that have blown up every relationship she's been in, will likely blow up your marriage, and will continue to hobble her until she addresses them.