Just because a communicated boundary pushes a spouse away, doesn't mean it was the wrong thing to do . . . it just means they weren't ready to be faithful.
That is EXACTLY how it felt to me, like she just wasn't willing to offer faithfulness.
She HATES the obligations of our M. She felt trapped by them for years, so I understand her refusal to accept them again. What I don't know is whether she would have rebelled against them regardless of the state of our M, or simply because M requires sacrifice of certain freedoms, and compromise of life decisions.
I don't know if this would be helpful to you or not but I have a BINDER of info I collected over the past two years about divorce laws. While I would like to have it back you can borrow it for a while. It all either came from the court system or law libraries so it's not my opinion, just facts and procedures.
Not sure how I would get it to you or if you live near me but just thought I would offer.
I very much appreciate the offer. If I want to take you up on it, I'll get you my contact info outside of this forum.
Your story does concern me, and I can't believe I'm finding myself in this situation. I'm doing pretty well in my single life, and as a single parent with the kids now, which is great. The thought of going through a long drawn out legal battle before I can fully own my life again is discouraging, to say the least.
Future, with that wealth of information that CityGirl VERY GRACIOUSLY gave you gratis... can you understand why one of the FIRST things I ever did was lawyer-up?
IMHO CityGirl is one of the few unsung heroes on this board... and I've told her this many times. If I was you I'd get into the "alt", look her up and write her a $1000 check and very nicely ask her to be your legal advisor. I'm dead serious. CG is what you NEED right now, in addition to a father's rights attorney.
Wish I had more advice to give.
M:11 | T:12 | Status: Married 4C's of WAS communication: Cool, Calm, Collected and CONFIDENT
You posted this while I was writing up my previous post:
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
I very much appreciate the offer. If I want to take you up on it, I'll get you my contact info outside of this forum.
DON'T TURN DOWN THAT OFFER.
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
Your story does concern me, and I can't believe I'm finding myself in this situation.
It should concern you bro.
Originally Posted By: futureunknown
The thought of going through a long drawn out legal battle before I can fully own my life again is discouraging, to say the least.
Time to take off your blood-smeared, tinted glasses. D is a nasty business. It doesn't matter what is fair or not... what matters is how well you can manipulate the system - to get what you want - a.k.a the one with the better Legal-Gun wins.
We'd like that to be you.
Last edited by Gnosis; 01/08/1009:18 PM. Reason: puncttuation and stuff.
I realize to the general population of this forum I probably sound rather unstable and perhaps nuts when I begin to discuss the legalities of divorce in NY.
I used to belong to another forum and stopped participating as I was the only member from NY going through a hellish divorce (in the legal sense I mean) and I would get berated on a daily basis for being cruel and not "divorce busting" properly because sometimes you just can't when all this legal BS starts. Everybody would say (the other forum members I mean) stop focusing on what your H and his attny are doing. WHAT? Sure, okay, I will just let a dirty/filthy attny file motion after motion against me just so I can try and be the "bigger person" and maybe my H will want to reconcile? Please pardon me but F*UCK OFF!
I might not very well equipped to converse about the emotional side of divorce as I just grew SICK OF IT ALL so all of a sudden I didn't care anymore but I do remember the pain. I am not an attny (yet, lol!) but I did dedicate nearly two years of my life educating myself (with the help of my AMAZING attny and his staff) on the policy and procedures of this mess of a family court system. Why did I do that? Well, I was not going to get screwed and I needed to be sure I understood 110% of the time what the hell my attny was talking about. And maybe I just needed to feel in control of something and knowledge was the only control I had. Also, when you are dealing with a snake as opposing counsel you either get rolled or get smart. Maybe I am not smart but I can assure you I didn't get rolled.
For a long time I listened to all the horror stories of divorce in this state and I thought.. "gee, our case won't be like that". LOL!
I understand not wanting a long and drawn out legal battle but once the momentum of the divorce case gets rolling it can't be stopped. Let's say you had a pre-trial conference and you or your attny could not attend. The court has SIX WEEKS to reschedule. That is almost two months. That is why all of this takes so darn long.
If you want I can post my case start to finish. To this day I honestly don't think my H had ANY clue what a snake he hired. That is why it is essential that you retain counsel that is not snake'ish (like my word? lol!) but is no wimp either. You need to retain counsel that will work WITH you AND FOR you.
I will butt out if I am making you upset. No hard feelings at all. I guess I should aim to be more gentle but divorce in this state is not a gentle thing.
One thing I did was to call the State Bar Association and ask how I could learn more. There are seminars/classes, whatever you want to call them, that are hosted all over the state for free. You won't get specific legal advice but you do get a very good overall view of divorce and legal proceedings. I went to three because each one was hosted by a different attny and I thought it was important to hear how one attny viewed things vs. another.
They will explain the grounds and procedure but not advise you personally. Each seminar/class is three hours and very informative. Or I should say I found them informative.
Just had my meeting with my W. Didn't go too well. I threw caution to the wind and threw a few honest feelers out, I thought I had nothing to lose, but it went nowhere, as expected.
She tried to seriously bully me. Her mother has been watching the kids for me after school on my days, but she is hurt how her mother has sided with me on this, so she is now insisting that she be allowed to watch the kids every day after school instead of her mother. She said her mother's age and health make it unsafe for her to watch the kids. I listened to her, then she said "So I can start watching the kids next week, what time will you be available to get them from me on those days?" I said "Well, I need to talk to your mother and see what I want to do." She got angry and said "I told you clearly that she is NOT going to watch the kids any more. I laid out my reasons why. Good reasons." I calmly said "I'm not going to make a decision about that now." She said "She is NOT going to watch the kids any more." I said "I am not going to be dictated to or bullied, and I am not going to be forced into making a decision right now sitting here in this booth." She backed off and said "Think about it over the weekend, and we'll talk Sunday."
We discussed a few other minor things, then it got to the big one. I said "The kids aren't getting passports." She said "Yes they are." I said "You're a flight risk." She said "How can you say that? Look at how I've acted all year. I have never tried to keep the kids from you. I can see how much they love you. I would never take them from you. Can't you see that?" She was convincing, I'll admit. I said "W, you already have." She said "That was different. Our M was dysfunctional, we had to separate, you said yourself it was good for us to separate." She got a little nasty and said "You are mentally unstable around this. I have given you no indication I would flee with the kids." I said "I have a witness that heard you say if you could take your kids with you, you would move to <OM's country> in a heartbeat." At least she didn't deny it. She said "The operative work there is IF. If I could take them I might. If you were dead, who knows." That wasn't a threat, in case anyone here takes it that way, she was just talking about the circumstances in which she would feel free to take the kids there. I could tell she did not like that I knew she said that and that I have a witness. She said "Don't make us spend $10,000 just you can hear a judge say the kids can get passports." When I said "Based on what I saw in you last year, I have no basis to trust you, I just can't allow it." She said "I will bankrupt us both before I'll give up on that. The world is my home. I will take the kids and show them the world. Don't take that from me." Again, she was convincing, and I did feel for her. I said "W, you had that, and you gave it up." She said "What do you mean?" I said "You could have taken them anywhere within the confines of our marriage." Then she got sarcastic and said "Oh yeah, great, us travelling all over with our dysfunctional marriage. That would have been great."
Realize, 90% of me believes she wouldn't take the kids from me, but 10% knows it is a possibility. Oh, and I know she wouldn't outright TAKE the kids from me. If I allowed her to take them to OM's country, she would go there, have a ball, her romance with OM would possibly start back up, she'd get an offer for an absolutely irresistable job, then I'd get the phone call. "H, I have something I want you to think about. I have <list of wonderful things> going on down here, and I want to be able to stay for a while longer, so here's what I propose. We'll do rotating 3 month custody, or I'll keep them here for school, and they can come stay with you on breaks and in the summer. Think about it ok?" Then I'd say "Ah, no. Just bring the kids home on the day we agreed. I'm happy with our current arrangement." Then she'd get angry and say "H, I am NOT giving up this opportunity, and I am NOT giving up my kids. You WILL consider what I'm offering." Then I'd repeat "No. I'm happy with our current arrangement. Bring the kids home on our agreed day." Then she'd say "H, I won't let you keep this from me. I won't let our failed M ruin the rest of my life. The kids are staying here until we resolve this." Then I'm off to the legal races, and I start spending tens of thousands of dollars trying to mount a legal defense to get my kids back. Knowing my W, that scenario is absolutely realistic.
We went through the rest, then recapped, and agreed to just sit on everything for a couple days, then talk again Sunday. She said "If we can't come to an agreement Sunday, then it's time to get lawyers involved."
I again said what the h*ll and just asked "So W, did your decision regarding OM have anything to do with how you felt about me or our M?" She was angry, and said "Yes. And now that there's absolutely no chance for us, I'm sure that stings, doesn't it?" Then she walked away.
I am sorry the talk didn't turn out how you had hoped.
I hope you don't get upset with me and I am sorry if you do but I really do think you are making a very grave mistake even using the words "flight risk" with your W.
She told you that either way she is about to get her attny involved. If the two of you can't agree together about the passport/taking the kids out of the country issue she will have to tell her attny that. She will also tell her attny that you told her the concerns you have about her being a flight risk.
In turn, her attny is going to start protecting HER so she can do what SHE wants when SHE has custody post divorce and don't think for a minute those wheels won't be in motion before you know about it.
I know it's so hard. I know you want to grab your W and shake her (I am not implying you are violent, I just get the frustration) but there are some things you are going to have to keep to yourself in the legal sense. If you don't it will be YOU that adds to the legal bills because your W knows ahead of time what is on your mind and don't think for a second she won't be telling her counsel all of it.
By telling her you feel she is a flight risk (and I agree that she is) you essentially spilled a potential legal strategy you could have used to your benefit to the "enemy".
I tried to make this post more gentle and I am sorry if makes you more sad but I made SO many mistakes trying to talk to my H and all it did was hurt me and my case more.
