my W doesn't regret her affair

[futureunknown]

Future, hang in there. Be strong. Tell yourself that W has gotten way too much of you already and she doesn't get ANY MORE. She just doesn't get any more of you. Stay calm, don't give her any more of your emotions, your brain OR your money than you have to. It's not a fight. It's just not giving any more. Period. You need YOU for yourself and for your kids.

Hi musclegal-

That's the thing that is so hard for me. If you go back and read the first page of this thread, you'll see my big failing in my marriage was that I didn't give ENOUGH of myself. That's why I'm so torn about cutting her off now. She deserved more of me when we were married.

It is so hard to process grief when the "dead" person is in your face, and messing with your mind as though you were the one who did the betraying. At a certain point, you've got to turn it over to the lawyers, have them fight for you, and focus on your own future. Besides, most of the legal stuff is already decided under the law. Your particular situation or your emotions don't change the outcome of what a judge will decide. Just ask the lawyer what the judge is likely to do, and you'll know what to fight and what not to fight. I'm finding there isn't a lot of wiggleroom, at least where I live.

You are so right. I would be practically healed by now if I could have just gone away from my W and not seen her at all for the past year. This constant contact is brutal. Right now we're doing mediation, so it's all on us, no lawyers. If I go the route of lawyers, my cost to do this would go up tenfold. I just have to detach my emotions, and treat this as a business transaction.

Future, you've got a good future. You've had enough trauma already. Take some deep breaths and get through the divorce as fast as you can. That's what my very smart family is telling me, and I'm trying to follow their suggestions! Just get through it, and when you are out the other side, you are going to be fine. You've learned a lot. This isn't the last relationship for you. If you let her go, you will have happiness again and you can do things differently. If you keep hanging on, you are just spinning in a circle.

Thanks. I am very traumatized by all this, and I probably won't be healed enough for a new relationship for a while yet. I have definitely learned a lot. Even with my friends I am quite a different person, and I definitely am with my kids. We were playing a Wii dancing game a couple days ago, and it was a blast. Sadly, a couple years ago, you couldn't have dragged me off the sofa to do that. The kids are showing me so much affection and happiness. They've sadly begun to just accept their two lives, and appear to be making the best of it.

Oh, and for the discussions about what she wants. That's why you are paying a mediator. DON'T meet with her to talk about it on Friday. That will get you nowhere. All talks about settlements and custody need to go through the mediator. That's their job. To mediate so you don't have to fight in a restaurant or yell on the telephone or lose sleep. With the mediator, just calmly state your position, without escalating your emotions, and ask the mediator what the law says and how a judge would rule on it. They will know.

I hear you, but I think I can get through our meeting Friday without getting emotionally triggered or trapped. Money is a consideration, and the mediator costs money. If the meeting gets destructive, I can just leave.

[futureunknown]

The second I read your W's proposal I thought about the Brazil case as well. If your W wants the children to be exposed to other cultures tell her to take them to a museum!

Right! Also, this is a big country. She can give the kids plenty of exposure to different cultures right here in the USA. Once they leave this country, I have no power or control over what happens to them, and I can't accept that, given the circumstances. Intel I've gotten told me that OM sent my W an application for citizenship in his country.

The "formula" my attny helped me establish was as follows:

1. What I am 110% unwilling under any circumstance to bend on

2. What I might possibly bend on if the counter offer is appropriate

3. Things I am willing to bend on (which essentially were not important to me and merely created leverage and a false sense of goodwill with my H)

Sounds like a good plan. I've already started to separate her proposal into those three groups.

I am so sorry you have to deal with all of this. I know it is so easy to say "do this" and "don't do that" but I wish I would have followed my attnys plan from the get go (NOT talking to H). Especially if opposing counsel does not practice law in a "clean" way. And sadly, in this state most WAS who are in an affair and have lots at stake (and I don't mean money) will retain the "snake" attny as they are in the wrong and unlike most states, our state *is* a "fault" state.

I am not sure how to give you my contact info but if you ever need any moral support as you navigate through this mess of a family court system find me on the boards. I can really relate to it being a very difficult journey.

Thanks much CityGirl. I am learning how unfortunately terrible the laws are in this state around divorce. If I can't get the mediation to work, it's going to get very ugly, and very expensive.

Stay strong and keep in mind your W is *really* missing out!

That's the thing I can't seem to let go of. We have a great time together. Why isn't that enough, at least for us to build on? Even in the face of all this, we built up many good memories over the last year. Taking the kids to baseball games, taking them to local festivals, movies, playing games, watching them do sports. Plus, just her and I have gone out several times and had a ball together. What is the problem???????? Why isn't it enough for her? If we hated each other and had a bad vibe when we were around each other, then I could understand just wanting to end this, but it just doesn't make sense.

[motherof3]

[QUOTE]
If we hated each other and had a bad vibe when we were around each other, then I could understand just wanting to end this, but it just doesn't make sense.

If anything our WAS did/said made any sense, then none of us would be posting here.

You seemed to be handling this well. Stay strong.

[CityGirl]

The divorce laws in this fine state <insert sacrasm here> are nothing short of shameful. Do you know it has been in legislation for close to THIRTY years to have some "modern progress" made with divorce and our state. I was FIVE YEARS OLD and now I am close to 35 and not one damn thing has changed.

This won't help you and it didn't help me but it was interesting. Our state has a very vested interest in keeping marriages in tact and sadly it has nothing to do with the family structure or morality. My attny showed me this huge study that really examined how much our state rakes in by keeping marriages in tact as married people tend to buy property (and pay the insane property taxes which keeps the City pumping and leaves the rest of the state broke). It's all rather sick when you think about it. And it is terribly sad. Separation and divorce, especially when children of any age are involved, is so terribly difficult. Why the state chooses to make it so much harder with archaic laws is beyond me.

I can't say it won't get expensive because it will. And I know we don't have money trees in our yards or growing from our stoops (and if you do I am coming over, lol!) but honestly at some point you have to weigh you sanity against cost. And luckily for us it is commonplace for the spouse that cheats and walks aways to be responsible for ALL legal fees as we do live in a "fault" state.

I wish I could help you make sense of your W because you seem to love her so, so much and you seem like a lovely man and a terrific dad. I think for some people there simply isn't ever enough.

I nearly dropped over dead trying to understand things. And I am not being dramatic... my kidneys nearly shut down during the height of my situation due to my lupus and stress. From time to time I still sort of wish I could understand things fully. Not to reconcile but just because sometimes I have a deep urge to just "get it". I know I probably won't ever get it. Little by little you (general you I mean) will feel decent about not totally "getting it".

I think it is terribly difficult to follow certain DB's principles when you live in our state once the legal side of things begin as we are the only state in the union with such AWFUL divorce laws. I am not suggesting you become an ass but we simply do not have the same options as everybody else in the country.

My mom's divorce turned into a four year nightmare and eventually she had to move out of state, establish residency and start from scratch. And that is simply not right.

I am here for you - give me a shout if you need to!

[futureunknown]

The divorce laws in this fine state <insert sacrasm here> are nothing short of shameful. Do you know it has been in legislation for close to THIRTY years to have some "modern progress" made with divorce and our state. I was FIVE YEARS OLD and now I am close to 35 and not one damn thing has changed.

This won't help you and it didn't help me but it was interesting. Our state has a very vested interest in keeping marriages in tact and sadly it has nothing to do with the family structure or morality. My attny showed me this huge study that really examined how much our state rakes in by keeping marriages in tact as married people tend to buy property (and pay the insane property taxes which keeps the City pumping and leaves the rest of the state broke). It's all rather sick when you think about it. And it is terribly sad. Separation and divorce, especially when children of any age are involved, is so terribly difficult. Why the state chooses to make it so much harder with archaic laws is beyond me.

It is very frustrating. I think reform of divorce law is doomed because it's so politically worthless. Who's going to vote for a politician because they are championing better divorce law?

And luckily for us it is commonplace for the spouse that cheats and walks aways to be responsible for ALL legal fees as we do live in a "fault" state.

Is this true? Can I divorce my W and make her pay all the legal costs?

I wish I could help you make sense of your W because you seem to love her so, so much and you seem like a lovely man and a terrific dad. I think for some people there simply isn't ever enough.

I do love her, but as time goes by, our M gets more and more distant. Thanks for the kind words. Sometimes I agree with them, other times I feel like I sealed my own fate with my failings in our M.

I nearly dropped over dead trying to understand things. And I am not being dramatic... my kidneys nearly shut down during the height of my situation due to my lupus and stress. From time to time I still sort of wish I could understand things fully. Not to reconcile but just because sometimes I have a deep urge to just "get it". I know I probably won't ever get it. Little by little you (general you I mean) will feel decent about not totally "getting it".

Wow! I'm sorry you went through that. Stress is incredibly unhealthy. I think running saved me through these last couple years. My W and I were talking a few months ago, and she said how the nurse at her doctor was noting how her blood pressure had been quite elevated for a while. My W said she realized it was the stress of all this. She asked me how my blood pressure is, and I told her very low, because of the running. The nurse at my doctor did a double take when she read 106/70 off me. Not bad for a middle aged guy!

I think it is terribly difficult to follow certain DB's principles when you live in our state once the legal side of things begin as we are the only state in the union with such AWFUL divorce laws. I am not suggesting you become an ass but we simply do not have the same options as everybody else in the country.

I totally agree with this! The legal defense I'm forced to make does nothing but increase the negativity between us.

[musclegal]

I think too that for some people there simply isn't ever enough. I've thought that about my H. He says that he had NO complaints about me. That I'm a great wife. But he had an affair anyway and got addicted to the high. I think that sometimes you've just got someone who expects YOU to make THEM happy, and you can never do that for someone else. Happiness is an internal state. Getting a good "fix" of romance or alcohol or something else works for awhile, but general happiness is internal. I think my H looks outside and not inside. Future, just look inside. Don't try to understand it anymore. It doesn't, and won't ever, make sense. You just got the rug pulled out from under you and have to pick yourself up.

[Puppy Dog Tails]

I think too that for some people there simply isn't ever enough. I've thought that about my H. He says that he had NO complaints about me. That I'm a great wife. But he had an affair anyway and got addicted to the high.

This was one of the "infidelity myths" that was shattered by Harley in his research, when he found that a good chunk (I think it might have been 20-25%?) of cases of affairs were by HAPPILY MARRIED spouses. No marital dysfunction; no significant prior marital complaints.

It's always good to do a real gut-check, obviously, but sometimes it's just plain ol' LUST that happens. (Not saying it did in mine; I definitely contributed to some of the marital dysfunction).

Puppy

[futureunknown]

Well, I definitely had marital dysfunction, but I worked dam* hard to get better, and I know I am, and I know I would be a much better husband now. I'm five times the father I was two years ago. I've demonstrated that to my W over and over, but she prefers to hang onto her old resentments, presumably as justification for her A.

[CityGirl]

Well, you can't make your W do anything legally of course but in your shoes I would have your attny file an immediate motion for immediate reimbursement of legal fees. Whatever you do, do NOT agree to ANYTHING between you and your W or via the mediator about legal fees. My attny told me that every day and my H refused mediation. While this sounds funny I basically told my attny that I would go to the electric chair or spend the rest of my life in jail before I paid a dime of legal fees. Not only was my H ordered to pay my legal fees, he also had to pay my mom a penalty as she let me borrow the retainer and had to open up a retirement account to get the funds. And, it is HIGHLY advisable not to take any legal fees from joint funds as it demonstrates need that you had to borrow the money as to not take away from your quality of life.

The one beauty about living in a "fault" state is how acceptable it is for the spouse who is NOT cheating to file for divorce. It is not what you desire however it *is* considered cruel and inhumane treatment to be expected to stay in a marriage when a third party is present. You W can easily be portrayed now as a "flight risk" and it would not be unreasonable to have your attny request her passport be surrendered. Chances are she will request the same and of course, the passports of any minor children. Especially since NY is very close proximity to Canada with entry points to the country peppered in several areas. This is very common procedure.

While I know people that have made it through mediation just fine (and most of them were 2 spouses that were "on board" with a divorce) mediation is not really conducive to the divorce laws of this state.

It is *very* hard and very scary but you must be very aggressive with your desires (legal fees, support, asset allocation, division of debt and property) as there is no set formula just general guidelines so you can create some leeway for yourself if you approach it with a very skilled attny.

I would gather your marriage is classed as "vintage" (has reached the 10 year mark as mine did). Sadly, it is harder to dissolve a vintage marriage in this state and to "win" what you desire expect things to be contested unless you have a magician of a mediator.

In your case, your W contesting the grounds would actually be good for you as she would need burden of proof, not you!

I wish I could put a positive spin on all this but it really is horrible. Everybody told me that and I was so sure my case would be different. It's not.

It is SICKENING to fork over such a massive check to an attny for this reason but honestly, it's just too much for any normal human to take on themselves. While the laws are stringent they also are filled with loopholes and once you get stuck in a loophole it is NOT easy to get out!

I studied the divorce laws of this state like it was my job. I was very selective in retaining counsel and while it was a ton of work I am so, so glad I put the effort in that I did.

[CityGirl]

Also, everything I am sharing is what happens once the divorce or separation reaches the family court level.

I assume you have not actually filed anything yet as your W would only have twenty days to retain counsel and accept your grounds and settlement or counter.

In our state you cannot file a divorce decree without having a settlement offer (that is not to say she will take it but it has to be made available to her). Also, if you do file for divorce her attny has the right to request a signed affidavit from you (your attny will prepare this) that explains in full and great detail the grounds in which you are filing under.

If she does not request this DON'T OFFER. You are legally required to comply should the request be made however if the request is NOT made you are under no legal obligation to provide said affidavit. My H's attny ignored our request for this affidavit which actually worked in my favor as it was very easy to tell the judge during the initial RJI Hearing we had no clue why we were there as no info had been provided after the formal request was made.

It's all BS. And it seems endless. It's not.