Wow I can't believe how fast this thread has grown in one day.
I think everyone needs to take a breather.
I don't believe that by him telling his W to not introduce the OM to the children is controlling. He is just establishing a BOUNDARY. Since the subject of introducing new relationships to the kids was talked about in C, I think he has every right to remind her again. If he was "controlling" he would have actually done something to prevent it. Establishing boundaries is a GOOD thing. It shows what kind of stuff he's not willing to tolerate.
If it's Kevin's choice to DB, then I think we should all respect that. No one has the right to tell him that he shouldn't be trying to save his M. Even when we detach, we all understand that we would like to save the M, but if it doesn't work out, we're also fine. If he wants to put it on the top of his list, then so be it. That's HIS CHOICE.
We all wouldn't be here if we didn't want to save our M, one way or another. And it didn't take all of us a day to get that "lightbulb moment" where we understood how to properly DB. If he needs to feel disgust at his W to help him successfully detach, then so be it. Many success stories got to that point too.
Let him take it one step at a time. One day at a time.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
Do you think it would be a mistake for me and my H to do things together with the kids? For example, D8 has a birthday soon. I think H belongs at her party because he is her father. D10 has an important ceremony coming up, and H will be there. We will sit together, because it's what is best for her.
Our kids know that even if we can't be H and W, we will always be mom and dad.
The kids want to to an amusement park. They would like Dad to go. Do you think that's a bad idea?
Boundaries are NOT about controlling another person (which Kevin is trying to do). Boundaries are created to establish a healthy foundation in which an individual can grow, learn, improve and flourish.
Boundaries must be enforced therefore what Kevin is trying to establish is not a boundary as there is NO WAY to enforce it. He can merely make a request however his W is under no obligation to honor his request. Even an attny told him the same thing yet somehow our suggestions along with the suggestions of a DIVORCE ATTNY mean we are telling Kevin NOT to DB and try and save his marriage. The only reason Kevin cannot divorce bust is Kevin. Not us. Not anybody.
Boundaries would be doing many of the things we suggested he do such as breaking apart the finances and other small tasks that would allow him to flourish as a MAN and for a *very* long time he was not a man in his marriage.
Just a week ago Kevin was equating boundaries with "being mean" and still did not seem to grasp that him setting boundaries had NOTHING to do with his W and her reaction or pushing her away.
Kevin has not a clue about detaching. Anger fuels him for a day or two then reality sets in and he CHOOSES to head back to square one.
Nobody can DB until the stop judging, stop obsessing and stop controlling. Nobody. Period.
I don't see you making one bit of difference on the kid/OM situation. I wouldn't even try unless you have some sort of proof that he is not a good influence on your kids. I wouldn't bring it up again. I wouldn't ask your kids about it.
Me: 46 FWS: 36 Married and Divorced 4/07, Pregnant 7/07,False R 7/07 Baby Girl born 3/08 Kicked him out because OW: 7/08 5/10 He realized what he had and lost. Moved home! REMARRIED 3/14/11!!
He is just establishing a BOUNDARY. Since the subject of introducing new relationships to the kids was talked about in C, I think he has every right to remind her again. If he was "controlling" he would have actually done something to prevent it. Establishing boundaries is a GOOD thing. It shows what kind of stuff he's not willing to tolerate.
He's simply saying he doesn't want her to bring the OM (or any OM) around the kids, and it appears to be based on his personal opinion that she will be irresponsible or "confusing" for the kids. That is controlling behavior.
A boundary is about his feelings about acceptable behavior, along with a stated consequence for choosing not to respect the boundary. To paraphrase PDT:
Quote:
"You can't see OM" = controlling "I feel it is disrespectful to me and to our marriage to see OM, and if you continue to do so I will file for divorce" = boundary
What is the penalty, should she choose to bring OM around the kids? Is he going to push for sole custody and no visitation? If so, on what grounds?
Me: 44, Wife: 39 M: 17 years T: 20 years Bomb on 08/25/09 1/13/10: MC started 1/28/10, 2/8/10: More bombs 8/28/10: Wife moved out No talk of D, no movement
IMO inviting an estranged spouse to their child's b-day party is one thing but what Kevin and his W did was something else. She snuck in his apartment after the kids went to sleep so they could set up all the gifts then she drove home and came back before the kids woke up. It was very orchestrated to look like a "happy, normal family holiday" when it fact it was all a farce.
Kevin was invited to his in-laws home and basically his W told him it was only because his daughter was worried about him being alone on a holiday.
Of course BOTH parents need to be included on special days for children but the sneaking in and out after the kids go to bed to create an illusion and give small children very false hope is cruel.
Once a divorce is finalized and both parents have had time to heal and work on the co-parenting R and the children have adjusted and understood this is how things will be it would not be outlandish to have "family time".
I understand Xmas is about magic and all that but I got a cold chill up my spine for every post I read on these boards where two parents who are separated try and create the illusion of the mommy and daddy for ONE DAY. IMO that is not a healthy way to approach daily life or a holiday.
That is true. The thing is that I don't see where he was actually controlling in this case. He established his boundary and came here to gripe about what his W was doing. That's pretty much what we all do.
Sure his W doesn't have to honor his request, but for him to make that boundary is for him. Not her. He has to get her respect even if it's not to get her back, because even if that D, they are still going to have to take care of the kids together.
He will get that respect from her one step at a time and establishing the boundary is a good way to go. Let's face it, even though he let that bit of anger show through last week, he hasn't been obsessing about her AS MUCH as he had in the past.
We all understand that detaching is the way to DB and he hasn't gotten to that "lightbulb" moment yet. I know he'll get there. Rome wasn't built in a day and suspect neither will Kevin's DBing.
M-43 W-40 2D - 9 and 5
Emotion, yet peace. Ignorance, yet knowledge. Passion, yet serenity. Chaos, yet harmony. Death, yet a new life.
A boundary would be K telling his W that if she CHOOSES to bring OM around the children then he will file for divorce and sole custody. Establishing consequences is just as important as the boundary itself. BUT, even his attny told him that such a boundary would be IMPOSSIBLE so in fact, it is NOT a boundary at all. It is merely a request and his W could choose to honor it or not. She chose not.
There seems to be an awful lot of confusion on what boundaries are, how to set and establish them and how to follow up with consequences should that boundary be crossed.
Because Kevin does not have a viable consequences (especially one that doesn't stem from the need to control his W and what she does and who she does it with) a boundary cannot exist.
IMO inviting an estranged spouse to their child's b-day party is one thing but what Kevin and his W did was something else. She snuck in his apartment after the kids went to sleep so they could set up all the gifts then she drove home and came back before the kids woke up. It was very orchestrated to look like a "happy, normal family holiday" when it fact it was all a farce.
Kevin was invited to his in-laws home and basically his W told him it was only because his daughter was worried about him being alone on a holiday.
Of course BOTH parents need to be included on special days for children but the sneaking in and out after the kids go to bed to create an illusion and give small children very false hope is cruel.
Once a divorce is finalized and both parents have had time to heal and work on the co-parenting R and the children have adjusted and understood this is how things will be it would not be outlandish to have "family time".
I understand Xmas is about magic and all that but I got a cold chill up my spine for every post I read on these boards where two parents who are separated try and create the illusion of the mommy and daddy for ONE DAY. IMO that is not a healthy way to approach daily life or a holiday.
Thank you for your input. Sorry for the hijack, Kevin. I think I will suggest that the kids choose one of us to go to the amusement park with them.
