What do you do in counseling? If your counselor is not helping you learn how to find solutions then you need to find a new counselor. One can spend a lifetime in C'ing rehashing and talking about feelings and still be stuck because no goals are being created to find solutions to improve your life.
Right now she is helping me define my goals. We are getting back on that January 5th.
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And yes, you did have other options regarding the family home but you were afraid to exercise them as you feared it would make things worse. You let fear stand in the way of possibly staying in the family home. The result? You live in an apartment.
Ok CG. You will have to explain to me what my other options were then W's parents own the house and realistically, I could not have made the rent on my own without really struggling financially.
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Did you and your W have a clause in the lease to the house you were renting that states if she wants you out then you must leave? If you wanted to fight to keep your family in tact then why not take the gamble and present your case to a judge. If you were denied at least it was the LAW dictating your housing status and not your W. If you would do *anything* to keep your family in tact then it seems to me you would have tried every possible long shot to remain in the family home that neither you or your W own. As far as I know a landlord cannot evict one party due to a change in marital status. But you didn't. Because you feared it would make things worse.
My W was the only one with her name on the lease. Other than my driver's license, I had no claim to the rental house. And her parents had already checked into it and found that they could have me evicted within 30 days. The L tells me the judge usually rules in favor of who evers parents own the house. I didn't see having much of a chance of staying in it much less the ability to make the rent each month on my own without really struggling financially. And yes to add to all of that, the situation would have only grown far worse and nasty.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
See, these are things I am asking you to think about to possibly understand the root of your fear.
If you and your W were married why was only HER name on the lease of a house you shared? It doesn't matter if her parents own the house or not... or it shouldn't. Even if she lived there alone prior to marrying you why didn't you ask for a new lease when you moved in that had BOTH of your names on it?
Why couldn't you afford the house on your own? Because you passed on a job and your W took it.
Both things happened while you were married. Your W has been running the show and you let her. You let her be the sole person on the lease in a house you both live, pay and maintain. You let her take the better paying job. She sounds like the man in the R and you the W. That is why she is just fine on her own. Even when she was married to you she was still the leader and not much has changed. IMO that is why she is just fine on her own and you are not.
See, these are things I am asking you to think about to possibly understand the root of your fear.
If you and your W were married why was only HER name on the lease of a house you shared? It doesn't matter if her parents own the house or not... or it shouldn't. Even if she lived there alone prior to marrying you why didn't you ask for a new lease when you moved in that had BOTH of your names on it?
W moved back to Texas ahead of me with my girls while I waited for my job to end. She wanted to get them into school on time. She had to show residence to get them in so her and her step FIL did a quick lease with her name on it. I don't know why she didn't include my name on it. I wasn't there to sign it, so maybe that had something to do with it. I never really gave it much thought with my name being on it or even thought to ask about it as D was never a consideration so I thought.
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Why couldn't you afford the house on your own? Because you passed on a job and your W took it.
Obviously. No need to rehash this mistake as it has been the enabler to all of W's decisions since.
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Both things happened while you were married. Your W has been running the show and you let her. You let her be the sole person on the lease in a house you both live, pay and maintain. You let her take the better paying job. She sounds like the man in the R and you the W. That is why she is just fine on her own. Even when she was married to you she was still the leader and not much has changed.
Yes, CG, I admit that my W wore the pants in the family for far to long.
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Even when she was married to you she was still the leader and not much has changed.
I understand your opinion here and where you are drawing it from and it is hard to disagree. But I am living my own life and leading my own life.
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IMO that is why she is just fine on her own and you are not.
I am fine. I am not where I want to be yet, but I am trying to change my career path to be better. With that more options open up for a house, car, things to do with and for my kids, retirement, etc.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
I know what you want me to do. You want me to take charge of everything in my life. Change my attitude. File for D on W and drop her like a bad habit. Move on and find someone who actually would respect me. Stand up and be someone worthy of respect. Have boundaries in place for me and be a man in every situation in life regardless of what someone else might think. Make my life a joy and success for me. Be the best dad I can to my kids and give them the best life possible.
Be charming and witty with a who cares attitude to protect myself. To grow and mature and realize I don't need anyone in my life. To live life to the fullest and take pleasure from my own choices in life. To not rely on someone else for my own happiness. To not rely on someone else to assist in problems that I can fix on my own. To be resourceful in every situation. To be a leader. To be confident in myself. To love myself and realize I am worth more than how my W treats me. To prove to myself that I can be everything I want to be regardless of what someone else says or believes.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Set some boundaries and you will be much further along. You think "doing fine" is all about a house, job, car and retirement. It is not.
You just said your W wore the pants in the family for too long. She is still wearing them. It is time for you to wear your own.
Learn from your W. She is very good at setting boundaries. Off the top of my head here are some boundaries she has set in a very clear fashion:
I don't want you to call, text or IM me unless it is about the kids or money.
If you don't move out then I will have you removed from the home.
On Christmas she told you in a very civil way the only reason you were included in her family celebrations was for the children (co-parenting) and because your kids didn't want you to be alone (pity). She knows you are searching for any crumb so she felt the need to clearly spell out to you that the two hugs she gave you on Christmas meant nothing more than two human beings hugging on a holiday.
All I am attempting to do here is to exhibit to you that until you start setting boundaries and acting like a man and commanding respect and equality then things won't change.
I understand one parent needing to stay behind to finish a job and the hardships that can put on a family when small children, a move and a new school are involved. I also understand the need to meet deadlines for school registrations. However you allowed your W to take the lead on things that PARTNERS should be doing together. You can't change the past but you can learn from it. In the case of her just signing the lease you could have said to her..."W: I understand deadlines for establishing residency and school registrations for the children but I feel it's best to have both our names on the lease for OUR home.. go ahead and fax me the docs and I will sign them and fax them back right away".
That doesn't mean you are preparing for a divorce. It means you are telling your W you want to be equal partners with her when it comes to all parts of life. A big part of family life is the home you live in (and that home could be a rental house or a paper box) and right off the bat you were comfortable with not being a part of that due to a few administrative obstacles.
Yes, I want you to do all those things you stated above. I would love to see you do ONE of those things. I would be so, so proud of you because to me it would finally mean that you know you are worth it. Why on Earth do you think I still post the same things to you day in and day out?
Honestly, I could care less if you get divorced or not. The divorce at this point is so, so secondary as you have far more pressing personal matters that need to be tended to at once.
Yes, please do that list you posted. I am hesitant to think you might finally get it. I hope you do because I really do believe once you really "get" that list your life will become MUCH better (mine did!).
Ok. Ya, at this point it is just best to learn from past mistakes and make changes for the better based on knowing what the past mistakes were. I agree with you.
So at what point do I finally convince you and 25 for that matter since yall are my toughest critics that I am learning from my mistakes and applying the lessons to a better future?
It is when you see boundaries going up in a productive way and holding true to them?
Is it when I finally take action on my own and file for D and drop W?
Is it when I separate the final accounts and not care how it affects the situation?
Is it when you see my attitude change all together about my current situation into a new attitude of just who cares anymore and moving on without looking back at W and doing 100% for myself without any given thought to W?
Is it all of the above? Am I on the right track as to what it takes to convince you and 25 as far as what I am saying/asking? Not that I am doing it to convince you, just trying to acknowlege and assume this is what you are trying to get me to based off our conversations.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Yes, I want you to do all those things you stated above. I would love to see you do ONE of those things. I would be so, so proud of you because to me it would finally mean that you know you are worth it. Why on Earth do you think I still post the same things to you day in and day out?
Honestly, I could care less if you get divorced or not. The divorce at this point is so, so secondary as you have far more pressing personal matters that need to be tended to at once.
Yes, please do that list you posted. I am hesitant to think you might finally get it. I hope you do because I really do believe once you really "get" that list your life will become MUCH better (mine did!).
Got it. Thanks CG.
Kevin
Me 36, W 37 M: 08/02/97 D13, D9 1st Bomb 02/08 Reconciled 04/08 2nd Bomb: 09/08 W filed for D 02/04/09 Separated 03/09 D dismissed 06/09/09 Still separated...
Ok. Ya, at this point it is just best to learn from past mistakes and make changes for the better based on knowing what the past mistakes were. I agree with you.
So at what point do I finally convince you and 25 for that matter since yall are my toughest critics that I am learning from my mistakes and applying the lessons to a better future?
It is when you see boundaries going up in a productive way and holding true to them?
Is it when I finally take action on my own and file for D and drop W?
Is it when I separate the final accounts and not care how it affects the situation?
Is it when you see my attitude change all together about my current situation into a new attitude of just who cares anymore and moving on without looking back at W and doing 100% for myself without any given thought to W?
Is it all of the above? Am I on the right track as to what it takes to convince you and 25 as far as what I am saying/asking? Not that I am doing it to convince you, just trying to acknowlege and assume this is what you are trying to get me to based off our conversations.
Kevin
It is when you finally get a clue and answer most of these questions yourself ;-)
The day will come, I suspect today & tomorrow isn't it but the day will come when you know what you must do.
You will act instead of react towards your wife's actions.
You will take the lead role in your own life.
You will lead yourself out of limbo.
You will realize that you can detach and still love your wife but know that you have to love yourself just as much and probably more for any of this ever to work.
You have to believe in your own personal value and invest in your self-respect to the point where you know when someone is disrespecting you and you know that you have to speak up instead of being passive aggressive and let people know that they've crossed a boundary, they need to backup and not do the same mistake again.
You have to learn that you need to let go of the people that don't value you or the relationship they have with you. In fact doing this makes them wake up and realize that you finally get it, you know what this is all about now. If they don't want to be with you but you still want to be with them and you convey this via oral and/or body language, they'll know it and just feel sorry for you and they definitely won't feel attracted to you. Marital vows have nothing to do with this, you've killed the attraction and you currently continue to do things that maintain those attraction switches in an "OFF" position. When you value yourself enough to detach and move on, then you will finally learn to start flicking those switches back to an "ON" position.
But for you, that won't be today or tomorrow but I'm thinking that 2010 will possibly be a good year for you to learn - in fact achieving clarity will be your new years resolution.
I feel our conversations would be far more productive if we both refrained from assuming what the other person is trying to convey. Mind Reading, assuming and speculation is not a good way to communicate. I am often guilty of doing that so I will begin by offering you an apology for any assumptions and speculations I put out there regarding your situation.
I am one of your "toughest critics" as you put it but I am also the last person that posts to you on a regular basis. Why do you think that is? I am not being a smart ass I am really asking you why you feel I continue to post the same things to you day in and day out.
If I have not made this clear perhaps this will help you out. I really don't care if you and your W get divorced or not. I also do not care who files for the divorce. At this stage I feel the divorce is very secondary and no, I do not feel divorce should be the answer but sometimes it is how things work out.
I would love more than anything for you to make decisions for you and not give a crap what your W thinks or how it impacts her. I would love, love, love that. I would heart it forever.
If you think the time and effort I have put in to posting to you since April of 2009 was to champion you ditching your W and filing for divorce then I clearly am a *very* poor communicator.
Remember when I told you about one of the very worst nights of my life? The night my H barged in MY house after I set a very clear boundary that he was no longer to do that? And because I didn't want to "make things worse" I didn't enforce that boundary. And the result was one of the most horrible nights of my life due to an argument between my H and I that was so vile and horrifying it is a miracle we are both alive to tell about it. And after he barged in, bullied me about waiving my rights to legal counsel and watching the clock so he could go meet OW I finally snapped in a very unhealthy way? Remember all that? What did you say to me after I shared that night? You said you were glad I put an end to that cruel behavior by my H by holding strong to my boundary (not letting him on the property anymore). You didn't worry about how my H felt, you just wanted what was best for ME! Did you ever stop to think maybe I want the same for you?
