S could've heard W speaking over the phone to someone. Best to say as little as possible, but the truth.
I just don't know what you could tell W, if you speak to her. This was all her choice, and she's not liking the consequences and trying to blame you.
Perhaps, if you get to a point where you could ask her anything, then ask her if she can see the pain she has put the children through, with her A? How much destruction she caused to a family that could've been redeemed? She wanted time, but on her terms. Did she think that you were just going to roll over and let her kick you while you were already down? Her body knows her guilt, even if her mind justifies it. All you can and could do is react the best you can for yourself and the children in response to her betrayal (which was a betrayal to her children too because their security in a loving family has been compromised and they don't "just get over it"). You see this all over the site.
I surely feel for you because either way you go, you are damned. So, you may as well get the best for yourself and the kids. She is probably getting over the A, hence the loss of weight.
Just some thoughts.
Me:57 H:52 M:28 Got another lawyer last year and filed. D35,S/D twins28,D22 EA4/04 End? Who knows? "Life is like a mirror. Smile at it and it smiles back at you." — Peace Pilgrim
This whole thing is really testing my resolve. I have such an impulse to go to my W to talk and try to get the anxiety level down. I know it's just fear driving me, so I'm trying to tolerate it. She is actually reaching out a little bit herself.
She called yesterday to ask me whether I got our youngest daughter a particular gift. She was awkward about it, as I've made it clear I don't want to involve her in my Christmas with the kids. She asked timidly and nicely "Can I just get a yes or no answer to whether you got D a XXXXXXXX?" I replied "W, it's not a secret what I got the kids for Christmas, I just haven't talked to you about it because doing Christmas alone with the kids is hard on me." She commiserated "I know." She asked "Do you want to know what I got them?" I said "Sure." She said "I'll send you an e-mail, it's too much to list here on the phone, ok?" I said ok.
In response I rattled off the stuff I got for them. Included in my list of gifts for the kids were sweatshirts for the local Div I college team, the one whose basketball games I've been taking the kids to see with my friends. She curiously asked "So do you have season tickets or something? You've been taking the kids to a lot of games." I said "No, I get the tickets from friends, or friends of friends. If someone's not going to go, they ask if I'd like to have the tickets. Cost me money in food, but the tickets are free." She said "That's great." I said "Yeah, the kids love it."
So she's still trying to figure out what that's all about. Doesn't sound fully detached, but she does put up a front that she is okay with everything. I guess she's DBing very well. I'm trying to remember what she said a few months ago, when I had that same impression, that she was totally fine. I commented about how great I thougt she was doing, and she looked shocked and said "I'm barely making it through each day." I know she's under enormous stress, with the holidays coming. Truthfully, so am I. I know a lot of the people here are. :-(
I think its great that there are chinks starting to show in her armor.
Xmas is always an emotional period in DBing. It's tough, Future, we all know it. This is why I suggested you move before January. Think of this as your LRT to break that barrier she has built around herself. Being away from the kids this Xmas is going to hit her hard. Its going to be up to you to keep enforcing so that she can break and start thinking, "Is this ALL worth it? Am I doing the right thing? etc.
You've created a crisis. Keep stoking the fire. I pray for you that she WILL break.
Stay strong Bro.
M:11 | T:12 | Status: Married 4C's of WAS communication: Cool, Calm, Collected and CONFIDENT
She had plenty of chinks in her armor in September and October. Now her armor seems back up to full strength, and she's telling the kids we're getting a divorce. This doesn't seem like good progress, but I know I was stuck in a stalemate before, so I had to do something.
My friend, you never know where her shield levels are. Don't be deceived and don't try to mind-read.
Yes, Sept & Oct had opportunities, don't beat yourself up. You were not mentally prepared at the time. Now you are. You had to do something and I think chose the best time to do it. Ironically, this is the best time of the year to play the crisis card.
I thought I played it well in October. Her shield was down, she said she liked how we were together now, and I did too. I knew she was torn up by the OM situation, but it looked like it was leaning my way. I stayed strong and maintained my self respect. I told her I wouldn't tolerate an open M and I was at a fork in the road. I thought that would cause a crisis and make her want to grab hold of me before I went down the other path, but she didn't. She kept stalling and stalling. I tried to cause crisis by then slowly increasing my distance from her, but that just made her feel I was abandoning her.
Is there some point where they break out of the incredibly self-absorbed state and can actually consider anything at all from someone else's point of view?
Sadly Future the fastest catalyst for change is pain.
She's going to be pain this Xmas and New Year. Tough love dictates that you don't make it easier on her. It's counter-intuitive and sucks to serve it because it takes a lot out of yourself too.
Its not always successful. That's why I told you to ask her if you could bring someone to that thing of yours and then quickly backtrack. i.e. to instill the fear of loss in her, but not let her know that all is lost.
Get yourself geared up for a blowout New Year's party. Ensure that you are on your best behavior, don't drink too much, have fun... and ensure that wherever you go that someone will be there to report back to her. Party like it's the end of 2009... a new decade is ahead of you and you are FREEEEEEEE!!!!!
Let her feel the pain during this period and throw her a bone after the New Year to gauge her temperature. Think of her as a wild mustang that needs to be tamed.
I'm new, but read through this post on Saturday. As I read, I wondered how long the DBing should go on. Future, you sound like a really great guy with an extremely selfish and immature wife. I wonder if you're grieving more what you wish you would have had, not actually what you had.
It doesn't seem right that she's got so much of your mind. Whatever time or attention she didn't get before, seems she is getting 15 fold now--but she doesn't even know it. So, its worthless and a waste of YOU. It seems to me that the GAL stuff/DBing stuff is designed to focus us on ourselves. If it works at getting the WAW or WAH back, then great. But if not, life is too short to spend so much time thinking/planning how someone else is going to react to you. You've got lots going for you. Sounds like you have a really good shot at doing things right/differently next time.
Best book I've read in a long time is How to be an Adult in Relationships (David Richo). One line struck me, and helped me to let go. "Does the partner of your distress say, I know what you need. I'm not going to give it to you. Don't leave me"? My H (soon to be XH) doesn't want me to let him go. He wants to keep me there for when he crashes. But I decided I want a mutually fulfilling and respectful relationship, not one where I'm erased and he's larger than life. Funny, since I made this decision internally, he is showing me lots more respect and is trying to be kind. But he hasn't done any of the work he needs to do to have a grown up relationship, so if/when he does crash, I don't think I will want him.
Don't know if that will help you, but seems like you've done everything you can for a really, really long time...I can't help but think that if you do go to a party on New Years, you should do it for YOU. And if you want to stay home and watch a movie by yourself, do it.
musclegal, welcome to the board, and thanks for commenting on my situation.
I've been thinking similarly to what you're saying and it has been weighing on me heavily as of late. I am grieving what I'd LIKE to have, not what I did have, because my M was not very good in many ways. My W does appear to have grown, but she is still selfish and immature, no doubt. She is more kind and patient now though, and her attitude toward life is better. Is there too much damage in our R to ever mend? I don't know. I was interested in putting my heart back on the line to find out, but now I'm not so sure.
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It doesn't seem right that she's got so much of your mind. Whatever time or attention she didn't get before, seems she is getting 15 fold now--but she doesn't even know it. So, its worthless and a waste of YOU.
Thanks for this. I agree completely.
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It seems to me that the GAL stuff/DBing stuff is designed to focus us on ourselves. If it works at getting the WAW or WAH back, then great. But if not, life is too short to spend so much time thinking/planning how someone else is going to react to you.
Again, I agree completely. I'm glad I put that line in my e-mail to my W about "life's too short for this nonsense", because it is. Going to that basketball game a couple weeks ago and having a blast with my kids and friends showed me I don't need my W to have a warm fun time with my kids. As I've said many times, it's really the kids that have me so dedicated to saving my M. Not that I don't want it, I do, but I know I'd be okay without it. Them, I'm not so sure.
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Best book I've read in a long time is How to be an Adult in Relationships (David Richo). One line struck me, and helped me to let go. "Does the partner of your distress say, I know what you need. I'm not going to give it to you. Don't leave me"? My H (soon to be XH) doesn't want me to let him go. He wants to keep me there for when he crashes. But I decided I want a mutually fulfilling and respectful relationship, not one where I'm erased and he's larger than life. Funny, since I made this decision internally, he is showing me lots more respect and is trying to be kind. But he hasn't done any of the work he needs to do to have a grown up relationship, so if/when he does crash, I don't think I will want him.
Funny, since my W is a professional marriage and family therapist, she KNOWS a lot of the right things to do. She says a lot of the right things, but she's just as suceptible to her emotions getting in the way as anyone else is. Sounds like by finding and holding your own self worth, your H is noticing your worth too. I too am finally realizing I'm worth more than what my W is giving me.
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Don't know if that will help you, but seems like you've done everything you can for a really, really long time...I can't help but think that if you do go to a party on New Years, you should do it for YOU. And if you want to stay home and watch a movie by yourself, do it.
My plans for New Year's will definitely be for me. I might give the impression here that I do things as some sort of strategy to see how my W will react, but I rarely do. I do try to guage her reaction though. I'm doing fine living my life for me now. I miss my old family life, and I miss my kids when I don't see them, which is over half the time, and I miss my W too. We really were good friends and coparents. I wanted more, but she saw no hope, gave up, and chose to leave.
Well, she's a fool. You deserve better. She only saw no hope because she choose not to and because she was in a fantasy relationship with someone else.
