I'm new wondering if this works...

[Energizer Bunny]

The good news is that you are going to MC! There is movement and you're not just sitting still. That's a good thing.

Scary as hell, but a good thing nonetheless. Sorry you're having a hard time with it. I completely understand.

[luvless]

Ya know hope...I've been thinking. I may be down your road soon and I'm not sure I can try so hard to make things work out with someone who doesn't. Don't you think..even if you turn things around and the marriage starts working. There will be deep rooted resentment for what he has put you through? will you ever trust that he won't pull away again? Do you wanna live in fear? These are just my thoughts but I think when it gets to this point - you really have to think - do you want to try so hard or do you want to be with someone who is trying real hard for you?

just my thoughts...

[givingitmyall]

Ya know hope...I've been thinking. I may be down your road soon and I'm not sure I can try so hard to make things work out with someone who doesn't. Don't you think..even if you turn things around and the marriage starts working. There will be deep rooted resentment for what he has put you through? will you ever trust that he won't pull away again? Do you wanna live in fear? These are just my thoughts but I think when it gets to this point - you really have to think - do you want to try so hard or do you want to be with someone who is trying real hard for you?

just my thoughts...

And THAT is a VERY important factor. It took me a while finally to understand and accept that try as I might, I could not sustain a R if I was the only one trying - IT TAKES TWO. Without BOTH people working on the R, it cannot succeed.

Which leaves the LBS to consider whether any progress is being made. For me, as long as I believe we are making progress, I will continue to try. But, there may come a point where my W simply does not want to try. At that point, I see no choice left but to go our seperate ways.

[TrentC]

I may be down your road soon and I'm not sure I can try so hard to make things work out with someone who doesn't.

But that is the essence of divorce busting. Most of us are starting from the position of "my WAS says it's over", when means that they have given up hope of the relationship working out.

Don't you think..even if you turn things around and the marriage starts working. There will be deep rooted resentment for what he has put you through?

Only if you let there be. You can't control your emotions, but you can choose how to respond to them.

will you ever trust that he won't pull away again? Do you wanna live in fear?

That what boundaries and transparency are for -- to rebuild trust.

[Butterfly1]

All great points. YOu guys are good!

-Do my best and remember I can't control H or the outcome. Prepare emotionally for either outcome.
-This is movement and movement is good. Coming out of limboland.
-H must try too.
-Remember DB begins with where I am now - I want to repair, H (claims) he doesn't or doesn't believe we can. I can still DB.
-I can choose how to respond to my resentment. I'm working on forgiveness while still holding him accountable.
-Boundaries are to rebuild trust.

Another abusive argument this morning. I am finally seeing how H tries to bait and attack me. I tried to set a boundary. That's where I'm starting MC today.

I heard S crying "ow" when I woke up so I went in to ocmfort him. H says sarcastically "thanks for nothing."

I felt put down, because I didn't mean to do anything wrong. I asked for clarification "What do you mean?" H stonewalls. I asked him to please not say a comment if he doesn't want to explain - we can talk about it later. H angrily: "We talked about this last night! I thought you would know what I meant!" We had talked about six topics in anticipation of MC, so i was unclear. H storms off, sulks and says he will not talk.

H returns anyhow: "S needs to eat now or will be late for school!." (I know this - I get him ready most days, I feel ordered around, like I'm being talked down to). I reply, "I know, I was just asking him what he wanted for breakfast." H says sarcastically, "I didn't ask you what you said to him!" I'm confused.

I bring S to table for breakfast. H threatens: "Since you seem to be doing everything, I'll just let you do it all and leave." I say calmly, "No, this is your morning - you said you would get him ready. I do not want to discuss discipline in front of S." H continues to raise his voice and threaten "NO! You will do it, I need to go!" So I stand up for myself, "No, our agreement was that you will take him. I will not discuss this now." (boundary)

I go into my room and close door. H follows me in shouting. I continue to say "Stop it, I do not want to talk about this now in front of S." H continues to raise voice. He accuses me of "taking 20 min. holding S when he only has 10 min to get to work."

I had held S for 5 or 10 min. because he said he wanted mommy, as far as I could tell there was still 30 min. to get S to school. I literally plugged my ears until he stopped. It was awful.

It breaks my heart that this in front of S. I don't know what to do to make it better for him.

I notice that H got S ready for school calmly and quietly after that.

If H felt I was interfering with his discipline or schedule, he could have simply said so calmly and respectfully. Like, "S is fine, he is just trying to get your attention. We need to move him along because my time is short. Can you please help me get breakfast for him?" And it would have all gone smoothly.

I am finally seeing the games H plays. The problem is I don't know how to make it better (for me, but especially for my S who is the vicitm here).

I expect if I bring this up in MC today, I will get blamed, stonewalled, and not heard. I feel if we both work on changing abusive communication patterns to healthy ones, we could get our marriage on track. But I don't know how to be heard. Even if we D, this is a critical component. It's also why I fantasized leaving H for a year before he left me.

I'm not perfect either I do some really stupid stuff when I get upset. But it has to stop! And I just don't know how to get through to H when he's so justified that I'm always to blame and he doesn't have to do anything.

[TrentC]

I heard S crying "ow" when I woke up so I went in to ocmfort him. H says sarcastically "thanks for nothing."

I felt put down, because I didn't mean to do anything wrong. I asked for clarification "What do you mean?" H stonewalls. I asked him to please not say a comment if he doesn't want to explain - we can talk about it later. H angrily: "We talked about this last night! I thought you would know what I meant!" We had talked about six topics in anticipation of MC, so i was unclear. H storms off, sulks and says he will not talk.

If it's H's turn to get his son ready, why did you get involved at all? You should be willing to protect and defend your kid, but unless you have a reason to believe something is wrong, let your H handle it in his own way.

The best way to have responded to the initial barb was to smile and say "OK, you have everything under control" and leave.

You've got the pattern identified, now the trick is to not fall into it.

I bring S to table for breakfast. H threatens: "Since you seem to be doing everything, I'll just let you do it all and leave." I say calmly, "No, this is your morning - you said you would get him ready. I do not want to discuss discipline in front of S." H continues to raise his voice and threaten "NO! You will do it, I need to go!" So I stand up for myself, "No, our agreement was that you will take him. I will not discuss this now." (boundary)

What is the boundary? What are the consequences if he chooses not to respect it? Because he violated it and nothing appears to have happened.

I go into my room and close door. H follows me in shouting. I continue to say "Stop it, I do not want to talk about this now in front of S." H continues to raise voice. He accuses me of "taking 20 min. holding S when he only has 10 min to get to work."

You need to get a lock on your bedroom door; or, get dressed and leave. He should not be able to corner you like that.

I had held S for 5 or 10 min. because he said he wanted mommy, as far as I could tell there was still 30 min. to get S to school. I literally plugged my ears until he stopped. It was awful.

So why do you want to save this relationship? He has zero respect for you, is verbally abusive, and is emotionally manipulative. It looks like he walked all over one of your boundaries with no repercussions.

You're right; your son should not see that. But you can't change your H, so the best you can do for the two of you is leave.

[Butterfly1]

THx Trent!~- yes, I should have not gotten involved. The reason I did was I'm fearing physical abuse. It may not be so, but on two occasions, my H has hurt my son (by accident) yet denied that it happened. Last night, he was holding S firm to get jammies on, but when S's laughter turned to tears, H did not notice. This concerned me, and I was glad I was there to intervene. Last week, he picked up S to put him in his room for a time out, but he did it too strongly, by first slamming him down on the couch, and then when S said "owow" when H was grabbing him to put him in his room, H did not stop to see if S was really hurt or was trying to get attention.

My mama bear instinct has kicked in lately where I am watching H like a hawk. Under normal circumstances, I agree, I should have stayed out of it.

The consequence for the boundary was that I would leave the room. I did this. I do have a lock, but when I have locked it in the past, H gets more upset and has not only banged on door, he picks it open anyhow. Often I do leave the house as a boundary, but this morning I was in pajamas and awake for only ten minutes. I was in shock.

I am working on my self esteem and seeing the abuse for what it is. It is very confusing for me as I see many things I do wrong too. But through IC and the help of this forum, I have started becoming more aware of the eomtional abuse. I am still figuring out how to deal with it, if at all. I am also trying to protect S from it - which means I do most of the parenting. I simply step in because I do not want my child yelled at, grabbed to firmly, or unfairly disciplined. However, it's a fine line because I don't want to do things that will escalate the abuse and arguing - for S's sake.

We did start in MC today. I brought this up and H seemed to soften slightly and hear the MC where he usually won't hear me. I hope this can work.

[TrentC]

The reason I did was I'm fearing physical abuse. It may not be so, but on two occasions, my H has hurt my son (by accident) yet denied that it happened. Last night, he was holding S firm to get jammies on, but when S's laughter turned to tears, H did not notice. This concerned me, and I was glad I was there to intervene. Last week, he picked up S to put him in his room for a time out, but he did it too strongly, by first slamming him down on the couch, and then when S said "owow" when H was grabbing him to put him in his room, H did not stop to see if S was really hurt or was trying to get attention.

If you're worried about abuse, then you need to get out now.

My mama bear instinct has kicked in lately where I am watching H like a hawk. Under normal circumstances, I agree, I should have stayed out of it.

Your mama bear instinct isn't up to speed yet, if you think you're going to catch your H abusing your son.

The consequence for the boundary was that I would leave the room. I did this.

So in other words, there was no real consequence, because he did exactly what I would expect he'd do; follow you. A real consequence would be:

"If you cannot speak to me in a decent, repsectful tone of voice, I will take our son and find someplace else to stay while I file for divorce."

I do have a lock, but when I have locked it in the past, H gets more upset and has not only banged on door, he picks it open anyhow.

So your husband has so little respect for you that he won't give you the courtesy of temporary privacy?

Enough is enough. You need to leave.

I am working on my self esteem and seeing the abuse for what it is. It is very confusing for me as I see many things I do wrong too. But through IC and the help of this forum, I have started becoming more aware of the eomtional abuse. I am still figuring out how to deal with it, if at all.

Step one: LEAVE. It's a lot harder for him to be abusive towards you or your son if neither of you are there.

We did start in MC today. I brought this up and H seemed to soften slightly and hear the MC where he usually won't hear me. I hope this can work.

Abusers are very good at hiding their true feelings and attitudes from others. He'll put up a good front for the MC then go back to his old tricks.

[Butterfly1]

I cannot legally take my son away from H on "his" nights as far as I know. I'm trying not to let this teeter on D, and I have talked to a cop already about filing a restraining order -= but that is it - that will be the D, and it will be ugly - and what will that do to my S?

I just started MC today and I brought it up - you bet I did. I want to try to educate him on positive discipline methods. This physical stuff has only surfaced after our separation - it never happened when we lived together and weren't having problems - although there was always verbal abuse toward me, and ultimately I was guilty of being verbally abusive to him too when I let him upset me so much. That was horrible when my S overheard it. I feel guilty for not protecting my S more.

But him taking out his frustrations directly on my S is freaking me out to no end. He just considers it discipline. It would be a hard thing to prove in court. It's not so obvious or bad like bruises or something. It's just enough that I worry about my S's feelings.

I'm afraid that if I up the ante toward a D, the abuse will increase, AND I will not be there to see what happens to my S during visitation. This is why I am willing to put up with this s**t to keep him here until my S is older - so that I can monitor and protect my son. right now, I'd say I do almost all the parenting, even when H is around.

In our state, the courts support 50/50 custody, unless there are serious injuries that can be proven. H will lie and say I am the one who is abusive, then we have he said/she said and I may not get any more custody.

Sounds sick, I know. It tears me up inside because for years I have wanted to just take my son somewhere away from his father and raise him myself. But this is his father. I cannot up and leave and never have my S see his father again. So I'm struggling to diffuse the abuse by keeping a close watch and getting H into therapy. I know it's not ideal, may even be more harmful. I"m tormented by this. It's all taken such a horrifying turn.

As for me it's a different issue. I need to distance myself as much as possible because he has hurt me for so long and sees none of it. He's the victim. He works constantly and just tunes me out. I have NC these days except when I need to watch S. Even then, I'm cool and distant.

It's a good point that abusers hide their true colors in MC and go back to the same thing. It has happened before.

[TrentC]

But him taking out his frustrations directly on my S is freaking me out to no end. I'm afraid that if I up the ante toward a D, the abuse will increase, AND I will not be there to see what happens to my S during visitation. This is why I am willing to put up with anything to keep him here until my S is older - so that I can monitor and protect my son.

No, the real solution is that you get out and get your husband out of your life as best you can. I don't see how you are doing your son any favors, letting a man that you admit is hurting your son to get to you have access to him.

Sounds sick, I know. But I cannot up and leave and never have my S see his father again.

Want to bet? It happens all the time.

So I'm struggling to diffuse the abuse by keeping a close watch and getting H into therapy.

That won't work. You can't fix your husband, and he'll resent your trying.

As for me it's a different issue. I need to distance myself as much as possible because he has hurt me for so long and sees none of it. He's the victim.

Um, how do you figure that?