K4D Rising #4

[K4D]

TulsaTime,

I don't know when we are getting together yet. I am going to see if there is a time this month that works for everyone. You are more than welcomed to join. I will keep you posted.

VD and SO2,

Surprisingly my W said that her mom wanted her to tell me thank you for last night. You could have knocked me over with a feather. W was very grateful as well.

Go figure. I wouldn't have expected that. Still no invite for D11's birthday dinner with them tonight though.

I guess it is one step at a time.

Kevin

[MrBond]

"Surprisingly my W said that her mom wanted her to tell me thank you for last night. You could have knocked me over with a feather. W was very grateful as well.

Go figure. I wouldn't have expected that. Still no invite for D11's birthday dinner with them tonight though."

Geez dude. You really don't know how to count your blessings. On the one hand you are amazed that they were grateful and then you complain about not having dinner together. GET OVER IT!

It's exactly what I was saying yesterday about how changes aren't going fast enough for YOU. Did you expect them to fall on their knees and kiss your feet because of what you did? Did you expect them to be so grateful that they'd beg you to go to the dinner?

If not, you really do show that.

[K4D]

Stuck,

I am not complaining. Actually a very stunning development just happened. If you know the history of animosity between me and my MIL, this will stun you.

My W just changed her email address to list her first name and middle name and took our last name out of it.

At the same time, I just got an IM from my W saying not to get my hopes up, but her mom is talking about inviting me over with the rest of the family for Christmas now. Apparently that gesture I did last night for her really touched her. W wanted to know if I was interested in coming over there for Christmas with them. I said ya. Let me know. I think that would be great. She said she will let me know.

Wow. Who would have thought? On the one hand, my W is further separating her name from us with her new email, on the other, somehow a miracle has occured within her mom to have a softening heart towards me now.

I'm stunned, and grateful Stuck.

Kevin

[MrBond]

That's great! Take it as the blessing it really is and build on it.

[K4D]

I will. Thanks Stuck.

Kevin

[25yearsmlc]

I just want to ask my W, why does nobody have the guts to stand up to MIL especially when it involves the kids. Why does everyone let MIL get away with that when the kids are involved? Such a gutless family. Ugg, I really have to let this drop. It is eating at me right now.

Kevin

Kevin,
It's your job to stand up for yourself, not theirs or anyone else's. Ask yourself why you haven't stood up to her, not them...You could have calmly said "no, it's my time with them, maybe some other day"... or you could have granted the wish, which you did, but in a way that set a boundary and showed some spine. (E.G, "glad she appreciated it, b/c it's the last time since I don't intend to be shut out of my own d's lives any more, and I'd never treat her this way."....)

Nevertheless, you did not incur further wrath from her and You were "stunned" by your wife and her mother saying "thanks" and this seems to be a great comfort to you. Okay, that's fine. Maybe it will make some things easier. Perhaps your mil feels that you "get it" now and won't read into things too much if you get invited to something, so she can relax- and --so can your w.

In a recent post remarkable for its' lack of insight and your projection onto others, you said that you think "Most people that claim they are happy with themselves and have "detached" and are able to move on, have OP or do so because they have created the thought and image of someone else in their life, thereby still putting their happiness in the hope of someone else. They detached from their current relationship/M only because of a happy thought of someone else filling in their needs that they can't get met in their M anymore."

Well now Kevin, I feel like a mosquito in a nudist colony b/c I don't know where to begin. You are so wrong on so many levels here...and you still don't get it.

You simply projected your own dependency onto others, thinking that "most people" are as needy as you and that "most people" use others to fill their needs….Wow, I disagree so much. As for "relying on companionship" that's NOT what you are doing or saying, when you talk of "filling someone else's needs" and I hope to God you know that. Companionship is a human need. But you mean something else...something clingy that is a R with a woman, and with one exception whom you met at a bar recently, you have convinced yourself that the only woman who can "fill your needs" is the woman who doesn't want to fill them anymore. You had a M in which you admit you dumped the ahrd parts on her...the child care, the money earning max, the housework AND the decision making and the socializing...so I have to ask, what's different about you now? How would your m to her be different today? What would SHE get out of it? That's NOT a question to answer quickly....

You also say your w is very social and has a ton of friends. Sounds like she had a life or She GAL. So, Are you making any new friends or learning anything new and interesting, or appreciating how great your other family is, or joining new things or taking classes or...growing?

As for your numbers ("most people that claim"..) from my experience here, and in real life, I disagree strongly. Here are some of my observations.

I detached and moved on in my sitch, without an OM anywhere in sight or in my mind. Didn't even expect to date in the forseeable future, as my youngest was 8. I detached without OP. SO did CG, so did Brandnewday, so did FIB, so did Was2Sad, so did Iansofaway, so did Shark, AmyC, Holly06, BaseballAnnie, and so many others. How did you miss this??

Kevin, Anyone who "needed" OP to detach, by definition is NOT detaching. Yes, some people in life, some LBSers, do meet other folks and date them and THEN realize, "OMG, my WAS is not the one and only for me…" [b]and that lesson has value. But that's not the lesson you took from it.

How did you miss that key point? GAL and detaching do NOT require OP...it's sort of the opposite... I guess all the celibate people we know are unfulfilled & unhealthy people with tons of unmet needs…(like your priest, or the folks whos' spouses are at war, or missing in action or simply far away, or the happy single people I know, the content widower down the street...)

You should meet some happy singles so you know they exist. Or some happily married people who would be happy even if their spouses died, they'd still learn to be content within, and on their own...and you don't have that yet-- but you need it to make any of your dreams come true.

You've been here a long time to still be posting about your wife at all. Unless she comes to you and says outright that she'd like to reconcile, what else is there to say, but how to work out the details of the children's lives? Until IF and when you have a real sign of something like a reconciliation, you'll keep spinning out of control over the simplest gestures or words and if anything, you push her farther away with this same old behavior. Isn't that clear to you by now? Maybe she wants a R with you that allows for your company around her and the girls so she doesn't have to continue being cold to you so that she's not in danger of "leading you on" or having you assume so much...negative or positive. You read so much into so much. You need to GAL so that you have other things in your head. You have too much time on your hands to face your empty hours. Fill them with a real life. And soon.

Stop caressing & analyzing the scraps your w gives you, i.e., a slight act of kindness or a word of thanks for caving in to her family, again, b/c you saved her a scene with her mom. If you had spent half the energy on GAL that you do on worrying and obsessing about your wife, imagine where your life would be by now. Imagine how you'd appear.

Also -your wife said "Don't get your hopes up" about the invite from her mom..so--you post it here with your hopes obviously getting higher--but I dread hearing the after action report of how that night goes, IF it even happens...K4, did you hear your wife? Why do you think she said that to you? What do you think she meant for you to realize?

And Why do you think she changed her name to remove the name you once shared? Does it seem like a gesture towards reconciliation to you?

I think She wants a civil R with you. You claim you want that with her family. So if they invite you to something, please take it easy! NO assumptions about anything. Otherwise you will set yourself (and your d's) up for the coming let down and frustration, all the time. Aren't you tired of this? It's self inflicted pain and drama Kevin. It really is. And if you do go there and spend ANY time with her family, do not drink at all. Sure, it goes without saying...(or does it? I bet they're a huge trigger for you - and that past holidays, or times you have been drinking around them, did NOT go well and they remember those times better than you do.)

Please, K4, make some holiday plans of your own so that Christmas doesn't suck for you, and so it won't suck for the girls when they're with you. NO self pity! It'll show to your girls and besides, Christmas is always December 25th and you have a calendar. You knew it was coming. We told you back in September to make plans of your own and here you are in December, wondering what OTHERS will include you in...that's not taking charge of your life or planning for your girls or doing a damn thing, Kevin...Wouldn't that look like "same old K" as far as your w is concerned?

Please-read Antlers post on detachment. I don't think you processed it. It's the first step of many you will have to take to happy on your own. I'm so sorry you cannot see this, or won't.

Okay, sorry but I have to ask....Why did you have your phone/gadget mailed to your wife? Yes sure sure--I realize you don't trust the mail at your apartment...blah blah blah, but honestly, there was no one else in your life you could ask? Um, if you truly are someone who "relies on companionship" you need some more companions!

And then you had to call her to track its' arrival? What? I just wonder what is going on in your head....and how old you think your behavior looks to her. On one hand, you should not obsess about your wife's opinions, or how she feels on a given day --but surely you can see that your behaviormatters and is viewed by others and that if you can't see how it'll be viewed, that does not help your cause.

Kevin, for this Christmas & New Year, I hope you decide to get the tools you need to grow into being the man you and God, and your parents want you to become. It will require changing your course. It will require action AND detachment. What are you so afraid of? Is what you are getting from this "interaction" with her, this sliver of hope you see and cling to, enough to live off of for the rest of your life?

If you "must" date some OW to get on your feet, emotionally, and you are honest with them, so be it. (Just Don't call it 'detachment" or tell US that "most people" do it or imply that we did. Those I mentioned to you above, well, we let go of our situations and left the results up to God and CHOSE to be happy with our lives as they were/are). But I think you are one of the few who really cannot do this on their own or you would have done it by now. No judgement there, but don't hurl it back and say we're all like that.

Just do what you need to go to learn to be a healthy man. Right now the caving & obsessing you do about your wife's every move, is very sad and toxic and not getting you anywhere while another year has passed! Is this where you thought you'd be now? The obsessing has gone on way too long for a man your age.

Re-read Antler's and CG's and Breakaway's posts and read up on Detachment and just reflect (for more than a day or two) on where you are this year and where you want to be next year...

For a minute or 20, imagine yourself happy and without your wife OR any OW, and see if the sky Will fall down if you don't have a woman in your bed "filling your needs"? No. The sky won't fall down. Maybe you'll read more, join more, know more, love more, learn more, do more, and be more...

What will you be doing to be a happy healthy mature man of 36, next year? It cannot be more of the same or you will get more of the same.

Remember the definition of insanity--"repeating the same behavior, but expecting different results."

Reflect on that & reflection means pausing to think inwardly...and to ponder....so don't post an immediate answer other than to say you got the post...but really pray on this stuff b/c so far it seems to me I've just wasted so much time and energy on you. I mean, you saying that detachment really means having OP for "most people" -was an aggressively ignorant statement and showed how little thought you put into what we say and how you missed a point we have hammered hard, and over a long period of time. I still can't believe you don't get it by now.

This is your life K, the stakes seem high to you, but you sure repeat your mistakes a lot. Why not change that?

Good luck,
J-

[K4D]

25, I got the post

Kevin

[K4D]

25,

I may not always like what you say or want to agree with it. But the truth is, most of what you say is very valid and it just sucks to hear and acknowledge that sometimes. And I always read what you say because I know the effort and time and thinking you put into it. And the fact that you are willing to for me is more reason to make sure I read everything you say and think about it.

You seem to really be able to pinpoint things for me quite often. At times I like to think I am moving along better, but then you point out things I am doing or saying that suggest otherwise. It is frusturating to read what you say to me, but that is because what you say to me is the truth. Sometimes the truth is frusturating to hear. I feel like every time you post to me, I have more work to do. And I can't deny what you post. It just makes me wonder if I am ever going to get out of this trap of not feeling complete and happy without my W.

Sometimes I don't post a response because there is nothing I can post to you. I can't disagree with what you are saying. So what else am I supposed to say other than just acknowledging that I read your post which I am trying to be better at.

Tonight I will spend some time really going through this latest post of yours and respond carefully after thinking about each thing in it you said. I have already read it twice. But again, there is not much I can add to or refute on your post. So I will just try and answer specific questions you asked after giving each one some thought. But at least you know that I have read it more than once and I am thinking about what you said.

Kevin

[K4D]

Maybe that is what you are wanting to see is proof that I really am taking in what you say to me. I will try to make sure I don't leave any questions unanswered when ever you post to me. That also helps me to be more considerate of yours and everyone else's time on here. It also helps me to practice listening and thinking better.

Kevin

[Startingover2]

Agree with 25...Being a needy person is no attractive. You show some independence it will be so good for you.