Separated, new baby, but still hopeful

[newmama]

Thank you Cutterbug! I will just remove it before he comes over. Easy, simple and non confrontational!

Okay he left. So I came back from grocery shopping and asked how his time went with our baby. I showed him a cute santa hat and booties that I bought. He liked them. I know we aren't supposed to talk about the future BUT I just said that we should have have our baby wear it when we get the tree on Wednesday and take some pictures.

I made some dinner (just for me) and he told our baby how he'll get to eat the yummy food mom makes some day.

I said that our baby was going to love all of the lights in the house and it's too bad we couldn't find a place for the tree in the den since that is where we hang out. (We usually put it in the front room) WH suggested that we move the love seat in the den and put the tree there. I said that my family would need to gather around and I don't know if we'll have room. He said that people could still hang out in the front room and we could put the fake tree there.

I am only mentioning this because when I have brought up Christmas talk he doesn't comment and gets quiet. I am not saying that by conversing with him today that it is a good thing, I just hope that by me talking about it like we will have Christmas with or without him that he at least feels some longing, you know?

Then he played with our baby and showed me some new moves.

As he left he said in an upbeat way you guys have a great night,and I'll see you tomorrow! I said okay, I hope you can feel better and try to just rest. See you tomorrow!

Let's see.. another small but possible "overanalyical" observation. At times our bodies touched when he was holding our son and I kissed him goodbye or when I held him and he came over to pick him up or say goodbye. In the past, I would have pulled away quickly if his hands touched mine or our legs touched. This time I just let them touch. He didn't pull away either. I KNOW that's not a big deal, but I wonder if he noticed I wasn't pulling away like I have in the past.

[Jstar]

every fight we get into he runs home at the age of 29. he has never lived seperate from his parents, oh wait for one year he did during our first seperation, but he chose to rent a house 2 blocks from his parents since they would be over 3=5 times a day or him over at his moms 3=5 times a day.

he doesn't have any domestic responsibilites at his parents, no cooking, no cleaning, no laudry, he just says mom i'm hungry and she'll cook him something. we've spoke about this before, i said sounds like you want a wife that will have 6 kids, stay at home, be happy living in a dump, no future, no retirement, will be at your beck and call, just like mom. he would always say, no that's not what he wants, i'm the total opposite, i've worked my while life, served in military 13 years, a vet of 2 wars, master's degree steady job for over 10 years.

so could i find common ground with his parents? i think boundaries need to be set with them. h wants me to have a relationship with them, i need to have them not count on h for money, he needs to set them before i'm going to do anything.

as far as being dark, i'm doing it, gonna set a time limit by the court, we have our appointment tuesday, if he shows.

[P17]

Go buy 2 big cheap tupperware containers.

Toss all that stuff in it.

Place it in the basement or garage.

When he comes over. Tell him you packed it up already for him and tell him where the containers are.

Let him move them out.

You have already helped.

As for the mattress. Remove it. Say nothing. Do what you need to do to live in your house.

ITS YOUR HOUSE.

Remember removing stuff can be very therapeutic.

Exactly what I was going to say. He is still cake eating and he will never make up his mind about which way he will go while he has the best of both worlds - a beautiful, loving and caring wife, a new baby and bit on the side ....

[P17]

Let's see.. another small but possible "overanalyical" observation. At times our bodies touched when he was holding our son and I kissed him goodbye or when I held him and he came over to pick him up or say goodbye. In the past, I would have pulled away quickly if his hands touched mine or our legs touched. This time I just let them touch. He didn't pull away either. I KNOW that's not a big deal, but I wonder if he noticed I wasn't pulling away like I have in the past.

Newmama,

You need to let this stuff wash over you. I could tell you countless stories about me and W before I went NC being close and touching but one I will re-iterate here as it's graphic and is also completely meaningless (now).

My W came over a couple of months ago. We went out for some food, came back, she bent over to go into the cupboard to get the plates. Without being too graphic, her bum was in the air and I had to squeeze past. The only way to do that was to push, hard at her bum, as I was going past. It was very graphic and very sexual. If I had done the same thing to you, a friend or anybody else they would have hit the roof. How many people tolerate you pushing your crotch at them? Nobody. Especially not a WAW who has a new man and doesn't want to be near you.

Last time W was here she sat right next to me on the sofa. This time, I felt uncomfortable. Things had come full circle. I believe she was trying to be close to me and not the other way about.

My point is that he could have wanted to be close to you for a thousand reasons (as PDT said to me about the above statement, maybe my W was horny!). He may not have even noticed.

I don't say this to be nasty. I say this as I know what you are doing when you analyse this stuff - you get hope. I've been there, got the T-shirt as has most of the people on here. At the end of the day, the only person that this hope kills, is you.

Look on those things as being nice or being close or just even being a coincidence. Please don't read anything into them as there is unlikely to be anything there to read. (I actually don't believe I'm saying this stuff ... how far have I come in a few months!?!)

[newmama]

[quote/] Without being too graphic, her bum was in the air and I had to squeeze past. The only way to do that was to push, hard at her bum, as I was going past. It was very graphic and very sexual. If I had done the same thing to you, a friend or anybody else they would have hit the roof. How many people tolerate you pushing your crotch at them? Nobody. [/quote]

Ha ha P17! Did you thrust too? I just have to laugh at the description, not the message. I hear you.
I guess I am just really looking for small changes to indicate I am making results. But you are right!

[newmama]

Jstar,
I meant what is the most involvement with H's family that you could tolerate? For example, if he stopped paying for them but
continued to see them 3 days per week, would that be acceptable to you? I am not saying you SHOULD, I am just asking if you COULD...it is unrealistic to expect him to cut them out (not that you are wanting that) so what are you willing to tolerate?

What specific conditions did you set for him in order to reconcile?

I wonder if because last time you took him back that he is just not taking this seriously.
Good job with NC!

Also

[newmama]

I just had my DB coach session and here are highlights:

It is GOOD that my WH brought up getting the tree.

It is GOOD that I stayed calm and confident while WH was silent during the Thanksgiving meal. My coach thinks silence probably meant it caused him to feel some reality of his current actions.

My coach thinks the acts I listed (H offering to get me starbucks, lunch, continuing with compliments, being pleasant) indicate my plan is working to at least stall the D (which is the goal in this--to BUST the divorce).

My coach also said WAS often push buttons or test us when they see we are changing for the better because they don't trust if it's for real. BUT we need to stay the course and keep calm to prove we are for real.

He did remind me not to read too much into anything positive or negative over the next month because the holidays create magical experience that alter reality for the best or worse. So, just take the enjoyable times for what they are.

I asked him if it was realistic to think he could end the A this month, with the fact that Christmas is near and he and the OW may have made plans...purchased presents for each other...like it is bad timing to break up with someone. He said that it would be wise for me to not expect things to end between them this month. However, holidays bring about tension and conflict, too, so it isn't completely out of the question.

I asked about moving the stuff. He said it could cause WH to
1)think I am preparing to move on without him
2)bring up D talk
He said it isn't bad to try and push the issue. WH could say he needs to let me go and will file the paperwork. He asked what WH would say if I did 180 and said "That's very selfless of you. Thanks" I AM 99% CERTAIN THAT HE WOULD PROCEED!!! So the coach said "really? hmmm" not the response I was looking for.

The coach said that many WAS do feel like they HAVE TO DIVORCE because it is the only option due to the mess they created and it's only fair to the LBS. Still, they don't want to lose them and procrastinate, thus they hold all the cards.

So am I ready to be divorced yet? No. Therefore I won't be causing conflict this month. But I feel myself getting prepared for that reality. The holidays are not the best time to make this happen.

I still think plan B is in order in January, so I need to be preparing for how to do it. The only IM I can think of is a relative (my SIL) who is a friend to the marriage. The only other people that know live in a different city or are family. My 2 work friends don't like WH.

[P17]

Ha ha P17! Did you thrust too? I just have to laugh at the description, not the message. I hear you.

I did thrust. I was testing her. She never even flinched. If the roles had been reversed I would have smacked my head off the top of the cabinet.

I guess I am just really looking for small changes to indicate I am making results. But you are right!

Small changes are what you need to look for but notice them and recognise them and move slowly. They are only one part of the jigsaw.

As PDT, my hero ( :)) said once, when their words and actions match up, over time you will know they are telling you the truth.

Take it slowly. Enjoy it.

[newmama]

My evening highlights...positive signs from WH:

he had seconds of my meal

he cleaned the kitchen after I cooked (used to do this but it has been several months now)

he found some brandy in our cabinet and took it out for me-- I had some for the first time on Thanksgiving mixed with apple cider and had told him how good it was.

he stayed past the time he normally does and we watched a show together

Not so positive:
he said he needs to get the monthly schedule made but hasn't gotten around to it- I just said "Oh" shrugged my shoulders, and changed the subject.

EARLIER today my SIL and MIL came by to visit our boy. They asked how I was doing. I said "good," and explained I know he may still file for D but I am not applying pressure right now and that I am waiting until after the holidays before I implement some more drastic measures.

My SIL says she can't bear to talk to her brother since she wants to wring his neck. BUt she does love him and knows he is just lost right now. Both she and her mother do not talk to him about the A currently and are confident it will end. They say it doesn't seem to matter if they talk to him about it so they are just not saying anything. However, the OW is not welcome in their homes and that was all they told him awhile back.

My SIL is a former BS. Her ex husband divorced her 2.5 years ago, moved in with OW, moved out after 9 months (she kicked him out) and 1 year ago started groveling and asking for my SIL to reconcile. My SIL met someone and was in a relationship at the time. But they broke up. SO in July, her exH asks her again to reconcile....says he wants to marry her all over again. She said only if he was willing to go to counseling and make major changes. So that is what they are doing currently.

My SIL hinted that what caused her ex to really see what he is missing was to learn she was dating someone. I told her that I hear what she's saying, but can't justify dating while we are still technically married. I do think I could do it if he files for D...like that same week. (I started a profile on match.com awhile back just to remind myself that I could still get a guy if I wanted. :-) Like I said in another post, nothing serious, just get back into the dating game and take my mind off of WH.

I know there is risk that some of what I was talking about could get back to my WH. But here is what I said--I was not applying pressure, I don't want to D, I won't sit around doing nothing forever. So if he hears that, it is nothing I haven't already told him. (I did not talk about divorce busting or strategizing, etc.)

Wow, it seems like I have been super focused on this today. Tomorrow I will take a break and do some Christmas shopping!

[newmama]

One more thing, last night and tonight before WH left he said a jovial goodbye "Okay, well I'm going, so have a good night and I'll see you tomorrow!!" where in the past it has been "Okay, have a good night. I'll check with you guys in the morning"

By the way, I reply the SAME no matter if he is jovial or not "You have a good night too. See you tomorrow."

I will just indulge in my analytical observations until I go NC-I am at least trying to keep my reactions and behavior consistent no matter his mood!!